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To: kabar

I have to call BS. Show me your stats and proof on this. Now I am a Republican and I disagree with McCain on his Immigration Reform position. However I do support honest and helpful immigration where American businesses and industry require the help of skilled workers. I must admit for this discussion that I am a former Business Immigration Attorney. There is officially no such thing as a “Guest Worker” category as you define it. The Guest Worker program that would allow unskilled workers to be employed by US businesses for three years before deporting them was never signed into law (Note that I don’t support this either). Now there are “Temporary Worker” categories in the following categories:

H-1B: Skilled Workers (Cap of 65,000)
H-1C: Foreign Nurses (Cap of 500)
H-2A: Temp. Seasonal Agricultural Workers (Cap of 66,000)
H-2B: Temporary Seasonal Non-Ag (Cap of 66,000)
H-3: Training Visa in Approved Program (No Cap)
L-1A: Intra-company Transfer (Exec./Manager) (No Cap)
L-1B: Intra-company Transfer (Special Knowledge) (No Cap)
O-1: Extraordinary Ability (No Cap)
O-2: Spouse of O-1 above (No Cap)
P-1/P-3: Artists, Athletes, Entertainers (Cap of 25,000)
P-2: Art./Ent. in reciprocal exchange program (No Cap)
Q-1: Cultural Exchange (No Cap)
TN: NAFTA Visa (Specific Approved Categories) (No Cap)
E-1/E-2: Treaty Trader/Invester (No Cap)
E-3: Essentially H-1B for Australia only (Cap of 10,500)

There are also foreign national working on Practical Training under F-1 (Student) and J-1 (Exchange) visas but these are not technically “Temporary Work Visas”.

The fact is that the people that come through legally are for the most part highly skilled and educated. This is in fact a brain drain and it is beneficial to the United States. How many of those unemployed you mention are qualified for the skilled positions listed under the above visa categories? Not many I am afraid. And as for the few agricultural/unskilled visas, I’m not so sure that any of those unemployed you mention would want to take on working in the fields either (but there is nothing that forbids them from doing so if they wish to). The vast majority of workers are ILLEGALS, not people coming in on these important and legitimate visa programs. The problem isn’t the people coming in legally, it is the people coming in illegally and the fact that we do not have enough enforcement of the existing I-9 regulations. Your position reminds me more of one I would expect to hear from a Union member who does not understand that the real issue here is enforcing the current regulations and not trying to exclude “legal immigration” in valid and necessary categories.


177 posted on 10/05/2008 10:35:24 AM PDT by The Unknown Republican
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To: The Unknown Republican
There is officially no such thing as a “Guest Worker” category as you define it. The Guest Worker program that would allow unskilled workers to be employed by US businesses for three years before deporting them was never signed into law (Note that I don’t support this either). Now there are “Temporary Worker” categories in the following categories

Correct there is no official category as Guest Workers nor would there be under McCain-Kennedy, Hagel-Martinez, etc., but a rose is a rose is a rose. The ones you listed are ways to import temporary workers into the US. You can call them whatever you want. I was using the term Guest Workers to cover anyone who came here on a non-immigrant visa to work.

The H-2A and H-2B programs are really unskilled workers and the H-1B program has been abused by employers who are just using it to hire workers at lower wages.

Here are some studies about the abuse of guest worker visas and programs.

Total up the various figures you provided for these various guest worker programs, i.e., workers brought into the country on a temporary basis to work on NIVs. You will see that the numbers no where near approach the 1.2 million LEGAL immigrants who enter this country each year. It is also important to remember that up to 40% of the illegals who enter this country come here legally on NIVs.

Our legal immigration policies are based on a kinship system, not a merit-based system. We are bringing in brothers, sisters, uncles, mothers, fathers, etc. They take jobs and some even qualify for SS benefits depending on their age.

The vast majority of workers are ILLEGALS, not people coming in on these important and legitimate visa programs. The problem isn’t the people coming in legally, it is the people coming in illegally and the fact that we do not have enough enforcement of the existing I-9 regulations.

Visa overstays provide anywhere up to 40% of the illegal population, which is reflected in the the 7 to 9 million illegals working in this country. And legal immigration is supplying major numbers of unskilled workers. The Hispanic out of wedlock birthrate is around 50% [topped only by the black rate of 68%] and Hispanics have an even higher school dropout rate than blacks circa 50%. In CA the school dropout rate is 25% and in LA it is 33%. These conditions--single family households and high school dropout rates--are the social pathology for failure in this country. We are creating a permanent underclass.

179 posted on 10/05/2008 1:54:11 PM PDT by kabar (.)
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