Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: wgflyer

“An atheist society can not, as we have seen, maintain any morality.”

That does not look like something an atheist would write. In any case, I do not think we have seen that an atheist society cannot maintain any morality. Not at all.

History has shown that atheism is not a sufficient ingredient for a healthy society. But we cannot thus conclude that theism is a necessary ingredient for a healthy society. In fact, history has shown that atheists can form morally upright communities.

It is quite possible that the world can have a prosperous, stable, and morally sound society founded on atheistic principles. The failures of some atheistic nations is not disproof of that.

And let’s not confuse the discussion by lumping atheism together with every other belief system. If we are going to make a case against the atheists suing the government here—or if we are going to make an argument against atheism in general—we should be very careful about how we use the term. Atheism has its unique attributes, just like everything else.


41 posted on 10/04/2008 11:33:44 AM PDT by JasonInPoland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]


To: JasonInPoland
In fact, history has shown that atheists can form morally upright communities.

Where? I don't recall any examples of that.

It is quite possible that the world can have a prosperous, stable, and morally sound society founded on atheistic principles. The failures of some atheistic nations is not disproof of that.

Failure of *some* atheistic nations? Which atheistic nations have not failed?

46 posted on 10/04/2008 11:58:50 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies ]

To: JasonInPoland

I know I don’t sound exactly like an atheist. It certainly confuses the Jehova’s Witnesses who occasionally come to my door. But I am.

“I do not think we have seen that an atheist society cannot maintain any morality”

I don’t mean to say that some atheists can’t maintain morality, only that an atheistic society tends to drift, and usually downwards. While we see that in theistic societies as well, I personally think that such drifts are directly attributable to the extent to which members of such a society are losing their faith. It is one thing to go to church. It is quite another to truly believe in the moral principles of a religion, and to practice them. That is a direct matter of faith, which atheists of course do not have.

“It is quite possible that the world can have a prosperous, stable, and morally sound society founded on atheistic principles.”

Well, okay. But based upon which, exactly, atheistic principles? There is no particular principle that I can think of that might be intrinsically common to or directly attributable to atheism.

“And let’s not confuse the discussion by lumping atheism together with every other belief system.”

If anything, I’d call atheism a lack of belief system. And I’m not trying to make an argument against atheism. I’d have to argue against myself to do that. I only argue that a theistic society provides a better society in which to live, for an atheist such as myself. Less bad things, generally, to put up with and more checks and balances to keep my own standards up.

I would argue against a religious state, for that can be oppressive. Our constitution prohibits that at the federal level, which gives me the benefit of being able to openly be atheist and still benefit from the high moral base of American theism. Pity that the latter is giving way to liberalism at an alarming rate.

I’ve never been oppressed by religion in the USA. However, I’ve been terribly oppressed by liberalism. I can tell the door to door missionaries to get lost, but liberals use the state to steal both my treasure and my liberty. They’ve managed to bypass the constitution quite handily to that effect. A national prayer day is the least of my worries.


51 posted on 10/04/2008 3:07:30 PM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson