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To: mlocher
I have been careful not to make any assumptions about the god that the Muslims worship. I know that you have stated that the Catholic Church has said that they worship the God of Abraham. Further, I think that we both agree that the Jews worshiped the God of Abraham.

I do agree with you on the Jews. However, I haven't said "boo" about whom the Muslims worship - I have only said they claim to worship the God of Abraham. It is a fine distinction, but an important one.

3500 years ago, the God of Abraham made himself known to mankind as "God the Father." 2000 years ago the God of Abraham manifested himself as the Triune God. Those who have been born in the last 2000 years that worship God the Father (only) deny the Triune God. Anyone that woships only God the Father, denies Christ and in a some sense are not different, even though their individual dogmas may differ sharply.

You could argue, based solely on the OT, that God has always shown Himself as the Trinity. It was the arrival of Jesus that clubbed us over the head and made it abundantly clear. We all see through a glass, darkly; some of us have been blessed to understand Him better than others. Even those who deny the Trinity may not deny Him - their ignorance may save them. It is an uncertain line.

Your arguments, while explicit in some areas, were somewhat vague about what you believed of the Triune God. You are correct that the teachings of Christ clearly show the divinity of Christ and his role as our Lord and Saviour. I did not understand your personal belief vis a vis the Trinity until your "confession" in your previous post. Welcome Brother!

Grazie!

My salvation does not depend on what others believe, only in what I believe. While it is my duty to spread the Gospel, I do this on an individual basis. I am neither in agreement or disagreement with your statement.

And that is fine. (I don't want to start hashing out salvation with you! I feel we may have different views on that.) However, this whole thread started with the idea of a Muslim publicly reading (not preaching) the Bible. You were concerned about that instance, and I encouraged it, as I believe it is an effective way to evangelize. Having a well-known Muslim participate in this will likely interest other Muslims to tune in and hear. I can only pray that the Holy Spirit then demonstrates the Truth of the Scripture to them.

28 posted on 10/05/2008 7:13:52 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: thefrankbaum
Grazie!

Prego!

I have only said they claim to worship the God of Abraham. It is a fine distinction, but an important one.

I agree that it is an important distinction. And you were very careful to say what the Vatican stated.

You could argue, based solely on the OT, that God has always shown Himself as the Trinity. It was the arrival of Jesus that clubbed us over the head and made it abundantly clear.

I will mostly agree with your argument. The Holy Spirit was given to the OT folks through the prophets. It is now ubiquitous.

You were concerned about that instance, and I encouraged it, as I believe it is an effective way to evangelize. Having a well-known Muslim participate in this will likely interest other Muslims to tune in and hear. I can only pray that the Holy Spirit then demonstrates the Truth of the Scripture to them.

I earlier stated that only Christians should evangelize. I have rethought things. History teaches us that God's Will will be done, regardless of who gets in the way. For many years, the Church flourished, in spite of many misguided popes. (Please do not read "many" as "all"). In this particular case, it is the Word of God, not the Muslim, that reaches people.

The Visible Church has made many mistakes in the past. One problem is how it has evangelized throughout the centuries. Too often, Christianity is presented in a Western Culture, making it difficult for others living in different cultures to see what it means to them. Worse yet, some evangelizers have mixed belief in Western Culture with belief in Christianity. Evangelization in Japan, China, India and 1600 North America are but a few examples.

29 posted on 10/05/2008 10:09:13 AM PDT by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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