Posted on 09/17/2008 4:02:34 AM PDT by Doctor13
The West Begins to Doubt Georgian Leader
Five weeks after the war in the Caucasus the mood is shifting against Georgian President Saakashvili. Some Western intelligence reports have undermined Tbilisi's version of events and there are now calls on both sides of the Atlantic for an independent investigation.
But now, five weeks after the end of the war in the Caucasus, the winds have shifted in America. Even Washington is beginning to suspect that Saakashvili, a friend and ally, could in fact be a gambler -- someone who triggered the bloody five-day war and then told the West bold-faced lies. "The concerns about Russia have remained," says Paul Sanders, an expert on Russia and the director of the conservative Nixon Center in Washington. His words reflect the continuing Western assessment that Russia's military act of revenge against the tiny Caucasus nation Georgia was disproportionate, that Moscow violated international law by recognizing the separatist republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and, finally, that it used Georgia as a vehicle to showcase its imperial renaissance.
As it appears, it is still difficult to separate truth and lies about the brief war in the Caucasus.
RALF BESTE, UWE KLUSSMANN, CORDULA MEYER, CHRISTIAN NEEF, MATTHIAS SCHEEP, HANS-JÜRGEN SCHLAMP, HOLGER STARK
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...
South Ossetia never wanted to be a part of Georgia. They got drug along unwillingly when Georgia broke away from the USSR. They fought a bloody war against Georgia to remain independednt. The war ended in a cease fire where Georgia agreed to allow them autonomy, agreed not to use military force against them and agreed to a peacekeeping force comprised of N. Ossetians, Russians and Georgians. This was in the early 90s. Like it or not Georgia violated the cease fire and shelled the S. Ossetian capital, reducing it to rubble.
The S. Ossetians also held 2 referendums (6 months after Georgian independence and late 2007) where the citizens voted for independence by a margin of 99%. Are you against the democratic will of the people of S. Ossetia?
Did you know that the Georgian and S. Ossetian people hate and distrust each other due to genocidal acts committed during their war? Did you know that their borders have been sealed and militarized since the early 1990s? Did you know that Georgia cut their power lines, darkening the entire country in an attempt to freeze them out? What exactly do you thing the Georgians wanted when they invaded with tanks & rocket launchers? Were they gonna give them all jobs & free medical care??? Or do you think they were going to kill them all or chase them from their homes? I have a problem with that. I don’t support genocide. I have little use for anyone who condones such acts or tries to call them normal & justified.
When I was there a few years ago this was not the case at all.
Where are you getting this supposed information, anyway?
Did you know the capital was evacuated of all children and most of the women a few days before this event?
Did you know that the Georgians did not have the weapon capability to reduce the city to rubble, but the Russian MIGs which came in afterward did?
I would support going to war to kick Russia out of Georgia, but I would kick their President in the arse for almost starting WWIII. The timing of his re-takeover of the province couldn’t have been worse. What a bonehead move to do it while the Russians are playing war games all summer right on the other side of the hill.
Did you know that the capital of South Ossetia was a marketplace for smuggling, money laundering, and other criminal activity and the Georgian police were constantly having to deal with it? Including kidnapping of Georgian children and keeping them in caves.
It was vacation paradise for the Russian mafia.
Did you know there are tons of South Ossetians living in Tbilisi and other parts of Georgia and they are still alive and happy?
Some genocide.
You paint a vivid picture of an absolute political mess, one that the wisdom of Solomon cannot sort out. So, I guess my vote would be to stay out and not try to have WWIII in a place that is only slightly less strategically isolated than outer Mongolia.
PS. I get my information by looking at an f’in map.
OK, I HAVE to take it word-by-word!
South Ossetia never wanted to be a part of Georgia.===
interesting statement, considering that there had never been “south ossetia” until 20’s of the last century! where in the world did you get this information! This territory has been Georgian for the past 3000 years at the very least!
They got drug along unwillingly when Georgia broke away from the USSR. ===
LIE! Even autonomous republics did not have the right to part with the any of the 15 republics consisting the USSR, let alone an “autonomous district” this territory was! Show me a citation of a single legislative act that would support this absurd you are now claiming! There was a referendum on March 31, 1991 in Georgia, including this territory, which voted overwhelmingly for separation of Georgia from USSR!
They fought a bloody war against Georgia to remain independednt. ====
That’s compete BS! Even their current leader is confused abouve whether he wants to stay independent or become a part of Russia. The conflict has never been about independence, it was something instigated by KGB to keep Georgia’s chances of parting with the USSR at the minimum!
The war ended in a cease fire where Georgia agreed to allow them autonomy’===
They had autonomy before and there was nothing to agree about it! Zviad Gamsakhurdia wanted to cancel their autonomous status, but never succeded in doing that! There is nothing in the treaty that points to that fact!
agreed not to use military force against them and agreed to a peacekeeping force comprised of N. Ossetians, Russians and Georgians. ===
Again, LIE! This was an agreement which was supposed to be aimed at settling the conflict, i.e. that the parties were to part their armed forces (rediculous statement as such) and negotiate finalization of the status, but never parting with Georgia - something that Russians then tried to entice in the local administration controlled by them!
This was in the early 90s. Like it or not Georgia violated the cease fire and shelled the S. Ossetian capital, reducing it to rubble.===
BS! There is NO evidence to support that statement: EVERYONE acknolwedges that it was South Ossetian militia who has been firing at Georgian villages for about a month (EVEN RUSSIANS)! Also, quite strange statement about rubble, considering that pictures currently broadcast from South Ossetia even by Russians fail to demonstrate any considerable damage comparable to what was done to Georgian villages surrounding Tskhinvali. See Wuman Right Watch publication on this and satellite images them made available!
The S. Ossetians also held 2 referendums (6 months after Georgian independence and late 2007) where the citizens voted for independence by a margin of 99%. Are you against the democratic will of the people of S. Ossetia? ===
Another BS! OK, imagine you live in a borough that needs to vote whether you want a casino in your neighborhood and you want this to be constructed. So you hold the referendum, but you deprive you neighbors right to vote and vote yourself! HOW THE HELL YOU CAN CONSIDER THIS TO BE A DEMOCRATIC! you have GOT to be joking! There were equal number of Ossetians and Georgian living in that territory - you REALLY belive 99% of vote is anything remotely resembling credible sourse! If yes, you REALLY have to seek a doctor!
Did you know that the Georgian and S. Ossetian people hate and distrust each other due to genocidal acts committed during their war? ===
BS - to start with, there is no SUCH THING as S Ossetian people; and FYI, there are more Ossetians living in Geogria outside South Ossetia than in that territory! AND NAME ONE BLOODY GENOCIDAL ACT!
Did you know that their borders have been sealed and militarized since the early 1990s? ===
BS! There was nothing even remotely resembling sealing of borders! these guys have been living off smuggling for more than a decade there, and all “borders” were easily passsable... in fact, there was none... what brought this to confrontation now was desire of Georgian government to stop shadow economy!
Did you know that Georgia cut their power lines, darkening the entire country in an attempt to freeze them out? ===
Nonesense! In order for Georgian to do that they would have to cut power to Georgian living there!
What exactly do you thing the Georgians wanted when they invaded with tanks & rocket launchers? ===
Bringing order to everyone living there! and really important thing - you CANNOT invade your own territory - that’s just STUPID!
Were they gonna give them all jobs & free medical care??? ===
Absolutely! Georgian government installed there temporary administration run by OSSETIANS that was doing EXACTLY THAT!!!!!!
Or do you think they were going to kill them all or chase them from their homes?===
Interesting, considering there are more ossetians living in Georgia than in that territory - would not you think that they should have started in Tbilisi if they were really up for it?!?!?!?
I have a problem with that. ===
No bloody wonder! You are so detached from reality you need to be seeking medical help dude! Obviously you have a problem, but it lies somewhere else than you think!
I don’t support genocide. ===
Nobody does! but considering that it’s the criminals that expelled people from Georgian villages in South Ossetia (see report of Human Rights Watch) and you seem to be supporting them, then by implication you support genocide, which is criminal offense in most of the countries, if you did not know!
I have little use for anyone who condones such acts or tries to call them normal & justified.===
Oh, very impressive rhetoric... needs to be directed against you though!
I have no time to be editing this for spellcheck, etc. but I am sure you got the point!
I really do not know if you will be able to read this, but in response to you looking at f/.. map, why do not you read this and put some thought into it!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2065305/posts?page=57#57
I hope you will be able to see this post!
Unfortunately the world does matter and we have to address it.
"On February 2, the US and Georgia signed an agreement to fight nuclear smuggling by providing assistance for border surveillance, enhancing ties with the international community on nuclear forensics and reinforcing the work of the Georgian Nuclear Regulation Agency. The first American delegation to come to Georgia to explore ways of improving the country’s defenses against nuclear smuggling arrived in mid-September 2006."
I’m not gonna waste my time reading any of your drivel.
I highly suggest reading some history since you seem really confused. You might wanna start with wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_ossetia
You're the one posting from what you read on the internet.
I suggest you do the same, but READ the damn thing carefully! I have live here all my life, while obviously you seem to have problems with deducing information printed! but read this carefully dude - even that article acknowldges that this territory is historical Samachablo where ossetians found refuge! and no one recognized the referendum due to reasons I described to you which you do not even want to read!
Like I said, I’m not gonna waste my time reading propaganda. Your stories are obviously quite biased.
Have a nice day!
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