Posted on 09/12/2008 1:41:12 PM PDT by Old Sarge
You must not have been to Kentucky recently, but, immigration is a separate issue, haha. I didn't say the hurricane was a national security issue, I said "...a national security issue such as energy..."
You said that the hurricane was a national security issue in Kentucky such that the governor ought to step in, if I may paraphrase it.
Why is the energy supply in Kentucky, affected by a hurricane in Texas, a “national security issue.”
I did not say the hurricane was a national security issue, I said that energy was a national security issue.
Why is the energy supply in Kentucky, affected by a hurricane in Texas, a “national security issue.”
Fair question. My contention is that energy is such a vital commodity to the basic functioning of our Republic that its availability to the People, both in supply and cost, is a national security issue. I don't believe it should be treated the same as regular "goods".
Excellent argument, I have to commend you. But, I don't believe energy should be treated the same as regular 'goods' because it is so vital to the basic functioning of our Republic.
It is not a matter of absorbing a loss. It is a matter of a severe decrease in supply. Demand must be curtailed because there is not enough gasoline. If you control the price, you must have rationing. But rationing and price controls will lead to black markets. The price would not be spiking unless there was a severe supply disruption. Rationing may be preferred in the short run. There had better be mechanism to enforce rationing or a black market will develop.
It happened in Michigan too. Filled up last night (because I had to) and couldn’t believe the lines. Gas was 3.89, this morning it was 4.19. Thankfully, the grocery store had a .50 off per gallon if you spent over $100 so that really helped.
Fact is, you're gonna have black markets to some extent.
When we hear about the gloom and doom possibilities every time a storm develops, you start thinking it's a ruse.
Price controls may be a reasonable response on a short term energy supply disruption. The price controls must be accompanied with a tight system of rationing. Otherwise, gasoline will only be available through the black market effectively subverting the price controls.
There may been false alerts on supply disruptions in the past. This situation looks like a real supply disruption. Gasoline usage will need to decline in the short run. I am not sure about the best way to achieve the decline.
It would be best if everyone can plan in advance about the need to reduce gasoline usage. However, I anticipate a chaotic situation in which gasoline supplies are suddenly disrupted. This situation will be partly due to panic and politicians flaming against oil companies to whip up public sentiment. I expect the rats to seize on this opportunity to create an ugly situation.
This supply disruption exposes a big vulnerability: the concentration of refining capacity in hurricane alley. This situation is well known but there is no action to change it. Perhaps conservatives can press the issue now. Developing domestic sources of oil would be a good incentive for new refineries outside of hurricane alley. We need government action to overcome the NIMBY and green obstruction of refinery development.
On the way up, the oil price was increasing without gas prices going up as much, so it's not not surprising. Even when gas prices rose, the oil prices had risen faster--tripling in price, from about $50 to $150/barrel, while gasoline did not jump from $2 to $6/gallon.
So when the price of oil came down, why would we expect the price to drop proportionately?
Especially Democrat governors. That's what Kentucky gets for electing a Dem.
Why, in your opinion, did the gas price not keep up with the price of oil?
It doesn’t make since that oil companies are raking in record profits yet not charging the *full* amount for gas.
I guess I’m grateful to some extent.
The same people that complain about an increase in gas prices, are also the same people that reveled when property prices were growing and are now howling because property prices have decreased.
I suppose we should pass laws to force property worth to exponentially increase, while we also have laws that force price decreases based on our convenience.
Good water example in your post. Coincidentally, I sent the following to a friend earlier that was very happy that the greedy oil companies were being addressed with anti-price gouging laws.
**************************
My favorite case of the effects of price gouging prosecution was a case in FL concerning water. When one of the hurricanes hit, there was some enterprising folks that loaded up cases upon cases upon cases of water bottles and drove down to FL. They opened up their trucks and were selling them for some “ungodly” prices, something like $50-75 a case or $4-5 a bottle. The result was that many of them were prosecuted under the price gouging statutes. Yes, they profited greatly. Yes, they seized upon an unfortunate disaster to make a lot of money. So, yes they were prosecuted.
The next hurricane hit, and guess what, no one showed up with water and there was a water shortage. I bet some of those folks wish there was a case of water available for $100, but the prosecution actually drove the greedy profiteers away and now no one has water available. The same thing is happening at this very moment in TX, there is a major fresh water shortage, however, I don’t know if they have similar price gouging laws as FL so I am hesitent to blame the government for the current shortage.
“I’m fine with looking out for others.”
Until it means that you have to pay more for gasoline. Especially after folks have pointed out how these high prices allow for resource allocation to the storm ravaged areas. So, I’m left wondering how you are truly “looking out for others.”
Twenty-five more cents per gallon would reflect what you mention. A dollar or two more per gallon would be a clear sign of immoral profiteering.
That wouldn’t be enough to affect your use of gasoline, therefore it wouldn’t free a limited resource for use where the folks that need it most are located. The point of price spikes is to allow for that redistribution.
Take a look at this oldie but goody by Thomas Sowell:
http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2004/09/14/price_gouging_in_florida
I’d sure hate for my own Governor’s use of “price gouging” legislation to result in extenuating the hardships for those poor folks in TX. But if people aren’t emotionally shocked when they fill up the tank, I guess her use of that legislation makes it worthwhile to the selfish. Who cares about the people that were hit by the hurricane and actually need the resource to be available to them in order to try to live some minimal lifestyle.
Yes, it would be enough to influence my decision whether to fill my take or to just add about five gallons.
To OldNavyVet:
It is nut cases that have gotten us in the mess that we are in — these nut cases are those who think that we should do nothing to treat our planet right. When I was in the Boy Scouts of America we were taught to leave no trace when we were out in the wilderness but we are leaving a big trace in the wilderness and we aren’t even there when we live in the big cities.
1) Our Economy is doing just fine — big joke as it isn’t just fine— just look at the events over the weekend. The only companies that seem to be making it those that have over priced gas at the pump for years. There isn’t any reason why the gas companies should be posting 16 to 17 billion dollar profits in 1 quarter. There isn’t any reason why the CEO’s of the gas should making 100’s of millions of dollars in salary and bonus (no reason why they should be making bonus)— it is called greed which is one of the deadly sins.
2) You don’t think that global warming is not real. This to me is like calling the Witch Hunt of Salem necessary because the was witchcraft that need be purged from Salem win in fact there wasn’t any witchcraft taken place just untrue conservative thinking. Those who are center to Left know that if we do not treat this planet right that we will not survive. Even George W. Bush now thinks that there is something to Global Warming.
3) Yes Ike will cause some temporary minor shortages — Houston/Galveston on account for about 19 percent of gas production in the US however it is up to us not to panic not to horde, and not to unnecessarily buying gas. On our main drag, before Gov. Steve Beshear issued the “State of Emergency” prices for gallon of gas rose from $3.65 to $4.57 (Kroger’s). I personally saw gas on our main drag jump about 70 cents gallon in one hour then after the S.o.E. was issued I saw it drop back down just under $4.00 a gallon which I still think was too much of a jump for the same gasoline that is in the ground that the stations had not paid more money to obtain. It is just more greed.
3) To not treat our planet right is just Unchristian and Jesus would be appalled at the way we have not been good stewards of God’s creation.
The Gulf Coast only represents 19 percent of the gas supply in the US. With conservation not panic there should be ample supply but I guess that this nation can only panic as we are the all about me society — the me first and forget about our neighbour. Me first got to have now society. I did see things around my town that did somewhat redeem my opinion of fellow mankind — people with trucks who stopped to pick up branches and fallen trees that were blocking the roadways. People helping their neighbour dig out of the trash and leaves that mother nature dealt us Sunday.
To hit someone who is down is not only unethical but plain wrong. The Amish have it right when it comes to helping your neighbour... House damaged by act of nature, they will rebuild it in 2 days. Need a new barn, build it in 1 day... all working together.
Damn straight!
These profiteers piss me off.
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