Posted on 09/12/2008 6:00:19 AM PDT by kellynla
You remain in character, Biden.
Not for a minute.
Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.
There you go with that gay stuff again.
No doubt. Even Andrew Sullivan would be embarrassed by that kind of statement. Very Freudian.
Except that, when I stated "some guy", I was referring to Ajnin. Which means that I clearly remember, and you are full of crap.
In any case, let me add the following for the record:
Ramos had been involved in an incident previously that involved him pulling his weapon and firing it. [ya don't say!] After that incident he wrote a report and was chastized for it because that report was not required or wanted by the supervisor. [oh really?] Ramos was told that the supervisor would have asked for a report if the supervisor wanted one. [of course]We have one Border Patrol agent left on this thread. He claims to be a policy expert. Perhaps he can direct us to the section of the regulations that states, "no need to report a weapons discharge if you've been told not to file a written report in the past?"181 posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 22:41:19 by mjaneangels@aolcom
It’s a little late for that, don’t you think?
I'll give AndrewC some credit for returning to the transcript. His problem is that he rejects the jury's, the judge's, and the appeals court judges' reasoning and substitutes his own.
You continue to attempt to tap dance out of your idiotic statements. You charged Ajnin with going on and on about the border patrol policy. It was important to note that he entered the discussion to spank you. He did that. The discussion went on because you kept going on and on about it.
It is called thinking for yourself. You might try it sometime.
Which include, for the record, #194:
At the scene, Compean was asked by a supervisor if he had been assaulted and responded that he had not been. Neither he, nor Ramos, nor several of the other agents who had heard shots reported to their supervisors that a weapons discharge had taken place. All agree that this failure to report was a violation of clearly-established Border Patrol policy. Nor did the defendants report that they had been threatened by Aldrete-Davila. Ramos and Compean suggested that their failures in reporting that they fired their weapons arose variously from simple mistake and fear of getting in trouble.And #212:
[citation ommitted]
From the 5th Circuit opinion:Like I said, you guys keep returning to this issue like dogs to vomit, but you can't argue substance.
The government produced evidence showing that the defendants violated a number of Border Patrol policies in pursuing and firing upon Aldrete-Davila. The defendants characterize the trial as one in which the Border Patrol policies were substituted for the actual crimes charged and that by permitting evidence that established policies were violated and strict rules were broken the district court allowed the government to avoid the more difficult task of showing that the defendants had engaged in criminal conduct. The defendants were charged with tampering with an official proceeding under 18 U.S.C. § 1512(c) by failing to report the shooting to their supervisors. They argue on a number of grounds that such a failure to act constitutes neither tampering with evidence nor inhibiting an official proceeding, an argument that we conclude has merit.The 5th Circuit vacated the portion of the convictions regarding "tampering with an official proceeding." Unfortunately, it is not the "meat" of the (other) convictions that are keeping Ramos and Compean in prison. In other words, the whole "was or was not policy violated" argument is really a red herring, and taken in a light most favorable to the defense (and there is no reason we shouldn't) is still a Pyrrhic victory for Ramos and Compean.
Incidentally, #212 is a fairly good example of what is called a "counter-argument." Try providing one some time . . . it may even make people believe you are capable of "thinking for yourself."
Your statement was, "Proof or STFU.
Try another tack. Your present one is not working.
In fact, the Inland Daily Bulletin (or whatever it was) article that ccgirl posted contains the same error. But no one appears to have a problem with their reporting, just mine.
I'm not arguing about the report. I'm arguing as to why the discussion continues. You introduced it into our discussion when you referenced Ajnin in post 278. You didn't like the length of my answer to you which was mostly citations of Ajnin showing that you were wrong.
Now you can clear other people's confusion by stating whether you believe the original statement which started the report discussion is true. It follows:
“First, both of them knew that it was their responsibility to file an incident report and furnish their supervisor with it.”
Sorry about the triple post the server kept reporting an error.
Wow, you all are even more ignorant than I thought. You never heard the phrase “You’re wound so tight you couldn’t pull a pin out of your ass with a tractor”?
But I’m not surprised it was made into another homosexual reference. What is it with this group? It’s like your brain immediately translates anything you don’t understand into a queer thing.
And why is it only the Ramos and Compean supporters? Weird.
It’s simpler than that. They think it should be legal to shoot SUSPECTED illegals on sight. That’s why they get their panties in a bunch over this, it conflicts with the basic wiring of their brain and they can’t handle it.
That Ramos hit OAD in the butt area only means his aim was off, but there is no doubt he was shooting at OAD as he was running away, that he aimed to shoot him in the back and that he was shooting to kill.
Compean is another story. He shot 14-15 times and never hit. OAD testified he saw “puffs of dirt” around his feet (There's no reason for him to lie about this) which tells us several things.
First, one has to understand the reason for Dept. policy on never shooting unless one believes their safety/lives or that of others is in immediate danger. The purpose is to minimize or eliminate the potential for innocents in the vicinity of getting hit by a stray bullet. The only excuse to put the safety of others in danger is if your own or others is also in danger.
All LEO’s know this. They are taught that if and when they do fire to do so to take the target down immediately and try to minimize potential stray bullet collateral damage.
So how could Compean fire so many times and never come close to hitting OAD in “center mass” and why was he firing into the dirt? Because he never intended on hitting OAD because OAD wasn't a threat AND he was trying to minimize the possibility of one of his bullets crossing the border and hitting an innocent civilian on the other side.
This is why in many previous postings I have argued that Compean in fact DID NOT intend to hit OAD, that he got angry at being bested by the perp and taking a header into the ditch and his only intention was to make OAD “dance” and show him a little BP what fer on his way back to Mexico.
Ramos was unaware of this, must have believed there was good reason for Compean shooting and that is why he took OAD down with one shot a four times the distance Compean was shooting at. He DID believe there was a legitimate threat based on Compeans actions. He believed Compean would be acting in a legal and professional manner. He was wrong and now he sits in prison for it.
Poor Ramos. All he had to do was tell the truth, that he heard the firefight, believed Compean may have been hit and was only protecting his fellow agent. But instead he had to go along with the “black shiny object” story to help out Compean. I also believe he was lying about many things from the shooting to getting back to the levee, in particular not discussing anything with Compean and not being involved in picking up any brass. Once he did that he became complicit in the bad shoot and the cover up. Ramos talks about how Compean looked like he "was in shock" after he shot OAD. Why would he look like he was in shock when nothing happened to him? He was in shock because he knew OAD wasn't a threat, he wasn't trying to take him down and then he sees Ramos mistakenly drop him at the other side of the vega with one shot. He was in shock because he knew right then how bad his screw up was and he knew it was a bad shoot. He knew the shiite would hit the fan if anyone ever found out about it. That is why they waited until they saw OAD exit the Rio grande. They knew he was hit but would probably not do anything because he was a drug mule. The uneasy question I have is what would have happened if the didn't see OAD get up after he was dropped. Would they then have reported it to supers? Would they have gone back there later to collect the body and dispose of it?
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