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To: EternalVigilance
“What other unalienable rights, other than the unalienable right to life, do you think are open to state “choice”?”

You are confusing Republican ideology with her position on Right to Life. It is Republican ideology that wants states to have the choice in how they decide this issue. The hope is that the states will not want babies murdered. It is Demoncrat ideology that wants nearly everything at the FEDERAL level.

Personally speaking I am PRO LIFE but want this decision to be at the FEDERAL level since I no longer have confidence in individual states to do what is right. So that is where I am more of a renegade against Republican ideology. Life is a MAJOR issue and I don't want some states allowing it and other states not to allow it. I want ABORTION BANNED IN ALL STATES and this is not Republican ideology - AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL! Notice at the FEDERAL LEVEL!


Sarah Palinis sticking to the Republican ideology but PERSONALLY LIVES what she knows is right - don't kill your baby! So Sarah is PRO LIFE or against abortion but is sticking to Republical ideology for decisions at the STATE level.

117 posted on 09/13/2008 8:38:37 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

If we had some states allowing it and other states not to allowing it, the number would certainly decrease. Not everyone will travel 1000 miles to murder a baby.


136 posted on 09/13/2008 10:15:43 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you"--John Steinbeck)
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To: nmh; EternalVigilance; joanie-f; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; metmom; marron; Guenevere; YHAOS; Cicero; ...
nmh writes: …as a Republican I have now moved the issue of abortion to the FEDERAL LEVEL. I no longer have confidence for STATES to make the proper ruling on this. I want ABORTION BANNED at the FEDERAL LEVEL so NO STATE can offer LEGAL ABORTIONS. I find the issue of the unborn and those about to be born that important.

Eternal Vigilence writes: Sarah Palin, by advocating a position that puts state prerogatives ahead of the unalienable right to life, has proven not to be pro-life, in fact. Just exactly like John McCain, who, by the way, is the one running for President of the United States.

Jeepers, what’s this dispute all about? Both of you seem to think that the answer to our prayers regarding the abortion issue is to see the right to life as fundamentally guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment, which holds that “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” [bolds added]. [Or yet a new Constitutional Amendment premised on the logic of the Fourteenth.]

But oh my, that seems such a slender reed on which to base the sanctity of human life.

For one thing, it doesn’t answer the fundamental question: Who is a “person?” Only a person can be a citizen and thus come under the protection of the United States; and by virtue of the citizenship relation alone cannot be deprived of life with impunity.

But the Left argues that there is no person until there is a born-alive child. (Some Leftists, such as Peter Singer of Princeton, think a child is not a “person” until it attains the age of 1. Only then does the child have any civil rights.)

Thus “logically,” the Left argues that abortion is not the taking of a human life (because it’s not yet a person, you see — Q.E.D.). Thus the Fourteenth Amendment is not triggered if an abortion is performed, up to and including partial birth abortion.

To me, the life issue is not, nor can it ever be, simply a “legal issue,” with legal remedies. For “personhood” is not something that can be stipulated or defined by law. It is already a given (as we find in the Declaration of Independence), from the moment of conception (“creation”). Thus fundamentally we are dealing with a “moral issue.”

Yet one cannot legislate morality.

The legislature can ban all kinds of things all day long by writing suitable laws. But if it is banning something for which there is public demand, all they will succeed in doing would be to create a black market for that “desired good.” You can make abortion illegal; but you cannot make it go away — unless there is a spirit of moral regeneration in the culture that becomes effective in the hearts and souls and minds of the public.

It is interesting to note that, back in the pre-Roe v. Wade days — back in the day when abortion was regulated by the states — abortionists could be, and were, routinely arrested and prosecuted. Post-Roe v. Wade, this never happens.

The dirty little secret the political/cultural Left doesn’t want you to know is: The reason they wanted to “nationalize” the abortion issue in the first place (i.e., via the federal, not state courts) was because most states were so hostile to it. With a stroke of the pen, Roe v. Wade rendered the laws of all the 50 states unconstitutional; and imposed a federal regime of protection for abortion that is destroying about a million pre-born children every year.

So I just wonder, nmh, why you think abortion should be a federal issue? Do you really believe that a Constitutional Amendment would stamp it out?

In Article IV, Section 4, the Constitution says: “The United States shall guarantee to every State in the Union a Republican Form of government….” This form of government recognizes the sovereignty of the individual States with respect to their own self-government, in association with a federal government of strictly limited powers (by my count, there are only 27 direct grants of power to the federal government under the Constitution, and none of them deal directly with life issues, e.g., murder, abortion, probate, etc., which under the federal Constitution historically, traditionally have been left to the states).

Implicit in our constitutional political order is the principle of subsidiarity, which states that public decisions ought to be made at the lowest possible level of competence, where people are directly involved in the issue and most knowledgeable about it.

You and Eternal Vigilence seem to be arguing that nothing is any good unless the federal government is doing it. Seems pretty naïve to me. [But then so is EV’s impending vanity vote for Alan Keyes….]

My own view is: Overturn Roe v. Wade and give the authority on the abortion issue back to the states. They have by far the better record on this issue, historically speaking.

The more abortion becomes a “local” and “state” issue, the more it comes under the direct influence of local, highly motivated and politically active defenders of human life.

The radical Left is well aware of this. They deplore it; for it “devolves” power away from “the federal authority,” which is now largely in the hands of ideological elites, back to the people. Which entails greater human liberty and personal responsibility. And that sort of thing cuts against the very grain of the entire radical Left agenda.

You need to be aware of this, too — if you’re gonna fight the good fight!

Thank you so much for the interesting discussion!

187 posted on 09/13/2008 2:00:22 PM PDT by betty boop (This country was founded on religious principles. Without God, there is no America. -- Ben Stein)
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