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The Low-Tax Left ( a liberal explains why Obama's Tax Plan is Superior to McCain's )
Forbes Magazine ^ | Sept. 11, 2008 | Dan Gerstein

Posted on 09/11/2008 4:32:06 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

The best-kept secret in this presidential campaign is Barack Obama's substantial package of middle class tax cuts--most political junkies can't even tell you what's in it and most working-class swing voters don't even know it exists.

Indeed, those voters would be shocked to discover that, according to independent analyses, Obama is offering 80% of Americans four times as much in tax relief as McCain on average.

The next best-kept secret of the campaign, and arguably the biggest mystery, is why has Team Obama seemingly been hiding this electoral haymaker? Even worse, why have they been letting their opponents con the American people into thinking that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class while McCain will lower them--a damaging line of attack that is demonstrably false?

This is perplexing on many levels, given the primacy of the economy as an issue in this credit-crunched year, the traditional bugaboo that taxes have been for Democrats and the troubles Obama has had closing the deal with blue collar voters. Indeed, if ever there were a time for a Democrat to play up a middle-class tax cut, not as a pander but as a serious response to a serious weakness in the economy, this is it.

But it is all the more mystifying because Team Obama has otherwise run one of the most ruthlessly efficient and disciplined presidential campaigns in the television era. They did not take out the Clinton juggernaut by getting lucky, but by consistently and aggressively out-thinking, out-maneuvering and out-organizing their formidable opponents--not to mention out-reading the public zeitgeist.

The only explanation I can come up with is that the Obama campaign fell into the classic trap of re-fighting the last war.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: economicpolicy; left; lowtaxleft; obama; obamabiden; obamatruthfile; tax; taxes
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To: SeekAndFind

The real problem is that Obama wants to confuse a ‘tax cut’ with a welfare payment inside a wealth transfer scheme. Obama would tax some people more in order to give other people a tax credit for taxes they didn’t pay. When you give someone something they didn’t earn, that’s welfare.


21 posted on 09/11/2008 5:13:51 PM PDT by DugwayDuke (What's more important? Your principles or supporting the troops? Vote McCain!)
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To: DugwayDuke
The real problem is that Obama wants to confuse a ‘tax cut’ with a welfare payment inside a wealth transfer scheme. Obama would tax some people more in order to give other people a tax credit for taxes they didn’t pay. When you give someone something they didn’t earn, that’s welfare.

Can someone enlighten us where he gets the 95% of working families will get a $1,000 tax cut ?

Who are these 95% and what are their income ranges ?

How does increasing taxes in the 5% who make $250,000 or more help decrease taxes on the other 95% ?
22 posted on 09/11/2008 5:17:14 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: jim35
I agree with the poster on the other thread who thinks that you are a sleeper troll.

Jim35, that is a low blow and I resent that. The other guy who called me a sleeper troll in a different thread ( because I cautioned people to look at the Electoral College and not the popular vote ) apologized and I accepted it.

The reason why I posted this thread is FOR DISCUSSION purposes. I am posting a liberal argument in order to elicit CALM, REASONED, REBUTTALS from conservatives as to why they are wrong. In other words, I am here to be educated.

This election is about ISSUES first and foremost and the only way we can understand the issues is to understand the argument the opposition makes and rebut them.

You seem to be saying that posting liberal arguments (even when they are from a relatively conservative magazine like Forbes) qualifies one to be a sleeper troll.

If you cannot present any good arguments to rebut this one, then may I request you refrain from calling people names ?
23 posted on 09/11/2008 5:23:19 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: pjsbro
1. what is “a working family”?

I would surmise that it is your average two income family where the husband and wife both work.
24 posted on 09/11/2008 5:25:18 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

25 posted on 09/11/2008 5:30:50 PM PDT by rocksblues (Folks we are in trouble, "Mark Levin" 03/26/08)
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To: SeekAndFind
Just what income bracket does the 95% of American families fall into? Then we can be in a position to say if the writer's claim is true. Otherwise, its just meaningless election year hype.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

26 posted on 09/11/2008 5:30:57 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is inferior because he thinks taxation is a zero sum game and that cute must be offset not with spending limitations but rather with increases on the ‘rich’ and businesses.

So what happens when the corporate tax rate goes up?
What happens when small businesses who file as individuals/families have their taxes go up?
What happens when your ‘start-up’ designation expires?

The answer is simple:
1. Prices go up.
2. Business owners, unlike the government, understand the value of cutting expenses. This will mean less investment in capital projects, fewer raises, and in many cases lay-offs.

As for tax credits for college - that is nothing more than pandering. It is not the job of the federal government to provide collegiate education - it is the responsibility of the states (or private enterprises) which run the schools, the families, and most importantly - the students.

A more detailed summary without the political rhetoric can be found here:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/election_issues_matrix.cfm
(Obama wants a 45% tax rate on estates over $3.5 million. Why don’t we just start taking small business owners out and shooting them instead!)


27 posted on 09/11/2008 5:32:24 PM PDT by BlueNgold (... Feed the tree!)
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To: EagleUSA
>>>Give it up. Anything this fraud says, is not worth used TP.<<<

That's exactly the type of emotional response the left hopes we will use! What is needed is logical facts a point-by-point refutation of his plan.

Start with something like: the latest figures from the congressional budget office say that the top 50% of earners pay 96%+ of the federal income tax. If you cut taxes for 95% of the taxpayers as you promise, how do you do that without DRASTICALLY reducing the net revenue to the government?

And given your program plans, at a minimum, call for 845 billion in new spending....is your plan not fiscally impossible?

28 posted on 09/11/2008 5:36:25 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: SeekAndFind

Bill and Hillary would get a tax break?

Since, 50% of tax payers pay no tax, they cannot benefit from a tax cut. They will be given a tax credit which will be refundable.


29 posted on 09/11/2008 5:41:48 PM PDT by depressed in 06 (Bolshecrat, the party of what if and whine.)
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To: SeekAndFind
What about single-earner households, retirees, households with fixed investment income.

My understanding is that these groups wouldn't be part of the "95%" as Obama implies

30 posted on 09/11/2008 5:41:53 PM PDT by pjsbro
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To: HardStarboard

What is needed is logical facts a point-by-point refutation of his plan.
:::::::::::::
As we have long witnessed, anything factual used against liberals are LIES AND TAX BREAKS FOR THE RICH. The dregs that will vote for Obama, are typically not America’s major taxpayers or contributors to the GNP. They want as much of a free ride they can get, and anyone’s expense of course, and in return they will give their vote to Obama, et al.

Until those voters get hurt bad enough by the radical socialist left, they will NEVER consider rational thinking or facts or logic. They are to selfish.


31 posted on 09/11/2008 6:08:24 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: SeekAndFind
Would Borat Obama LIE TO US?..
Outright in your face craving LIEING?...

Borat would say almost anything to get elected, McLaim would say almost anything..

32 posted on 09/11/2008 6:12:57 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: SeekAndFind

“How does increasing taxes in the 5% who make $250,000 or more help decrease taxes on the other 95% ?”

All that is beside the point. A few months ago, Maria Bertilona (bad spelling, the cute babe on MSNBC that does the real time reporting from Wall Street) interviewed Obama. During that interview she asked this question (paraphrased): ‘Why do you want to raise capital gains taxes since that has been proven to cut revenues’. The Obama answered: “It isn’t about revenue, it’s about fairness”. IOW, Obama thinks some people simply have too much money and he will take that money to make incomes more fairly distributed.

Now do you understand the Obama’s tax plan? He wants to use the tax code to make incomes more ‘fairly’ distributed. He doesn’t care if that means everyone makes less as long as it’s ‘fair’. The man will be an economic disaster.


33 posted on 09/11/2008 6:16:03 PM PDT by DugwayDuke (What's more important? Your principles or supporting the troops? Vote McCain!)
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To: ari-freedom

“Does anyone really believe he has what it takes to implement it????”

Many seriously do in Typical Bitterland. That stimulus check gave them a taste, and they want more - plus you’ve got people like BOR saying you’ll get a check for $1,000 in the mail from 0bama.

However, George S corrected 0bama last Sunday: If you’re single with no dependents, you don’t get squat. The keyword on his plan is FAMILIES, so he wasn’t lying.

So those without children - and sans spouse - will have to carry the load right along with the 5% that are ‘rich’.

It drops down to 81% after the adjustment - which George S pointed out. Unfortunately, I didn’t catch the source - I don’t know if it was taxfoundation.org or not. If someone has it, please advise - thanks!


34 posted on 09/11/2008 6:39:58 PM PDT by JavaJumpy (Shame on you CNN. You should be mortified at your so-called journalistic skills.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Obama wants to mail out “green checks”, not cut taxes. He wants to expand the use of the IRS to redistribute income. That is not a tax cut.
35 posted on 09/11/2008 6:54:34 PM PDT by CarryingOn (The Presidency of the United States is not an entry-level position.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Has Barry cut local taxes in the community he organized? I bet there is a local wage tax and business owners privilege taxes as in most big cities ..


36 posted on 09/12/2008 4:06:28 AM PDT by Kid Shelleen (All things shall be well; You shall see for yourself that all manner of things shall be well)
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