[LeGrande]

This is almost funny : ( Everyone is talking about different things.

Do you agree that an objects apparent position is not the same as its true position? That is what this whole debate is over.

Originally mrjesse and fichori believed that because the light from an object was continuous, its actual and apparent position were exactly the same.

[TrevorSnowsrap]

I think that point was previously conceded and you are/were correct.

[mrjesse]

This is almost funny : ( Everyone is talking about different things.

Do you agree that an objects apparent position is not the same as its true position? That is what this whole debate is over.

That is not what this whole debate is over. That was a small aspect of it until about 3 months ago when I learned about the 20 arcseconds due to Stellar Aberration, at which point I cheerfully admitted that the sun was not exactly where it appeared because it was about 20 arcseconds displaced. From that point on, the disagreement has been whether or not the sun is displaced 2.1 degrees.

LeGrande did claim that the sun is 2.1 degrees ahead of where it appears to be for an observer on the earth at any given instant due to the fact that the earth rotates 2.1 degrees in the 8.3 minutes it takes light to reach the earth from the sun. If the sun orbited the earth -- this would be true. But the sun doesn't really orbit the earth, now does it.

And it was to his absurd claim of 2.1 degrees to which I said "No way, the sun is where it appears to be." but then when I learned about the 20 arcseconds due to the earth's transverse velocity of 67kmph, I then immediately changed my stance to "2.1 degrees? No way. The earth is about 20 arcseconds displaced from where it appears to be." But because LeGrande knows that his other claim doesn't hold water, he keeps going back about the 20 arcseconds.

But any good scientist will accept the facts and change his position accordingly. That's why I immediately changed my position from saying that the sun is exactly where it appears to the sun being apparently displaced by ~20 arcseconds. But my change in understanding of the 20 arcseconds is really irrelevant to his claim of 2.1 degrees.

Originally mrjesse and fichori believed that because the light from an object was continuous, its actual and apparent position were exactly the same.

That's not a true report. Originally I and Fichori had not known about Stellar Aberration -- but upon considering LeGrande's 2.1 degrees and his claimed cause, we were certain that he was wrong. Now that we know about the 20 arcseconds (an arcsecond is 1/3600th of a degree) now we say that the sun is apparently displaced by about 20 arcseconds - but still not 2.1 degrees and not even for the reason LeGrande gives.

So I'm super glad I learned about the 20 arcseconds due to transverse velocity. but that doesn't change the fact that LeGrande has claimed 2.1 degrees at any given instant, and that if the sun were farther, the angle would be greater. And yet he refuses to apply that same math to a sun that was, for example 12 light hours away (or Pluto, which at times, is 6.8 light hours away) because he knows that his math would then look completely absurd because nobody would believe that the sun would appear in the east while it's gravitational and actual position were in the west.

-Jesse