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To: DieHard the Hunter
It is important to make the distinction that to affirm the value of the unborn in no way condemns those who have experienced the pain of abortion.

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I know you didn't ping me, but I've been following this discussion, and wanted to weigh in here.

The above bothers me. It implies a lack of responsibility on the part of the woman who has chosen to abort her child. That simply is not the case, and I don't think that telling women that they are not responsible for what they have done is the answer, nor is it morally acceptable. We can forgive people for their sins, but to deny that they have sinned is to deny reality.

When a Catholic goes to confession, the priest doesn't tell him that he has not sinned, but that his sins are forgiven.

28 posted on 09/08/2008 12:49:19 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

> I know you didn’t ping me, but I’ve been following this discussion, and wanted to weigh in here.

Sorry about that — an oversight on my part.

I think you’ve articulated the point rather well. I can’t see a good moral reason why Abortion should somehow be an exception to the “Thou Shalt Not Kill” commandment. And I do not understand why God would absolve absolutely — indeed treat as a victim — any woman who allowed the Child she has been blessed with to be killed, rather than born.

(The shared guilt of her accomplices in this crime — particularly the medical ones and those who should be supporting her to do the right thing — being acknowledged)

As you’ve pointed out, “being Forgiven” and “Not Sinning in the first place” are not the same things. The former merely re-establishes us on an acceptable footing with God when we have Repented of Sin. The latter obviates the need for Forgiveness in the first place, and is where God would prefer us to focus on expending most of our effort.


32 posted on 09/08/2008 1:00:31 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: trisham
I certainly never wanted to imply that the we should pat women who have had an abortion on the head, tell them everything is OK, and send them on their way.

I firmly believe abortion is a sin. However, it is one sin amoung many that people commit. Like any other sin, it should be dealt with firmly, but with love.

The topic of this article was women who had an abortion, understand they have done something wrong, and their reaction to that understanding. Some choose to deny it and publicly insist they haven't don't anything wrong. Some deeply regret their action, but don't know what to do next.

The solution for both (just as it is for any other sinner) is to guide them to the doorway of forgiveness to them, not to slam it in their face. Whether they walk through that doorway (and the consequences of that action or non-action) is something God will handle.

If we shut the doors of forgiveness on anyone that had commited a sin, most churchs would be pretty empty places.

39 posted on 09/08/2008 1:22:43 PM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: trisham
The above bothers me. It implies a lack of responsibility on the part of the woman who has chosen to abort her child.

If a woman who aborted her child can be persuaded to join in an effort that will save millions of other babies from the slaughter, what is to be gained by recrimination against her?

Christ offers amnesty to repentant sinners. In a situation like this, why should we not do likewise? We need to open people's eyes up to the fact that the 'pro-choice' people have used their guilt as a yoke against them, and that repentance will set them free.

Incidentally, the only way I can imagine a Constitutional Amendment getting ratified to define the unborn as children would have to explicitly limit its scope to those conceived after its effective date, and make clear that nothing therein shall be construed as having any relevance to unborn children conceived prior to its effective date. While it may not be logical that fetus conceived on Jan 1, 2020 would be a baby and yet one conceived on Dec 31, 2019 would not, such language is the only way to avoid branding millions of people, including the repentant ones, as murderers.

52 posted on 09/08/2008 5:19:35 PM PDT by supercat
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