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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; xzins
In addition, here are some excerpts from an article written by The Honorable Judge Robert Ulrich Chief Justice, Missouri Court Of Appeals, Western District (all with my emphasis): WERE THE FOUNDING FATHERS CHRISTIAN?

The Founding Fathers were all Christian. No one ever denied that. Their own religious denomination is listed and all of them are Christian, or at least they claim Christ as in their faith (I am not sure what Unitarians claim, but at least two of them were Unitarians).

Your argument, which seems to reflect the article you mention, reminds me of the Catholics arguing that some of the Latin Fathers wrote things that the Catholic Church believes forgetting that those views were never accepted by the Church as a whole.

By the same token, the individual Christian beliefs of the Founding Fathers have nothing to do with the documents of Independence and how the United Dates of America was defined as a state. Again, their individual beliefs notwithstanding, where do you find Christ mentioned specifically in the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution?

After all, the Constitution is how the country is constituted, i.e. legally defined. As far as I know, there is no Christ in the US Constitution, and therefore any claim that America is constituted as a Christian nation is simply false.

The two major players in the Declaration of Independence were deists. Is there any wonder why Christ is not mentioned in the Document and why even God is simply called a Creator? Apparently, all other signatories, who would consider themselves Christian, did not insist on any mention of Christ, but opted for terminology that can accommodate any religious preference.

Also, Ben Franklin says in his own autobiography that he was a deist. Yet the Judge you quote seems to imply otherwise. He knows better than Ben Franklin himself?

671 posted on 09/11/2008 11:46:06 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Marysecretary; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; xzins
By the same token, the individual Christian beliefs of the Founding Fathers have nothing to do with the documents of Independence and how the United States of America was defined as a state.

I don't see how anyone can divorce the faiths of the Founders from how this country was originally designed. For many Christians, faith is integral to their lives. They LIVE their faiths. Therefore their faiths come through in everything they do, such as starting a country. Given what I've heard said about Orthodoxy, it surprises me you would disagree with that.

Again, their individual beliefs notwithstanding, where do you find Christ mentioned specifically in the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution?

I quoted to you Bible passages identifying Christ AS Creator. It's right there in the Declaration.

Also, Ben Franklin says in his own autobiography that he was a deist. Yet the Judge you quote seems to imply otherwise. He knows better than Ben Franklin himself?

I have no idea what Franklin's Deism entailed. Just as liberals and conservatives today are much different from a long time ago, the term Deist may have had a much different meaning back then. It's not telling either way anyway. He was one man.

707 posted on 09/13/2008 5:54:35 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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