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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; enat; xzins; ...
Kosta, a question. Do you believe David was correct when he said he would see his son again, or was he wrong?

Faith does not save men. God's grace alone saves men through faith alone. But as in the case of infants or those who are mentally handicapped, God's grace may extend to them through the perfect operation of His mercy. The Scriptural example of David's son suggests this to be true.

If you belive even one infant is saved, baptized or not, then you agree with Calvinists who say it is certainly possible for God to work His grace in the heart of an infant because that infant has accomplished no works which would earn his salvation.

CALVINISM
It's Doctrine of Infant Salvation

"...Nevertheless, the Roman Catholic Church emphatically declares that infants and young children dying unbaptized are forbidden to enter heaven. According to the article "Infants, Unbaptized" in A Catholic Dictionary, "The Church has always taught that unbaptized children are excluded from heaven .... Heaven is a reward in no way due to their human nature as such."

Calvinists rightly teach that persons dying in infancy are saved in the same manner as are saved adults. God has only one plan of salvation. It teaches that sinners are saved by God's free and sovereign grace in Jesus Christ, totally apart from any works of righteousness they perform or any supposed virtue in them. Everyone who is saved — including all persons dying in infancy — is saved through being elected to salvation by God the Father, redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, and regenerated or born again by the Holy Spirit (as set forth in preceding messages)...

B.B. Warfield, born in Kentucky in 1851, was along with Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck one of the three most outstanding Reformed theologians in his day. He wrote concerning those who die in infancy: "Their destiny is determined irrespective of their choice, by an unconditional decree of God, suspended for its execution on no act of their own; and their salvation is wrought by an unconditional application of the grace of Christ to their souls, through the immediate and irresistible operation of the Holy Spirit prior to and apart from any action of their own proper wills... And if death in infancy does depend on God's providence, it is assuredly God in His providence who selects this vast multitude to be made participants of His unconditional salvation.... This is but to say that they are unconditionally predestinated to salvation from the foundation of the world" (quoted in Boettner's book)..."

So, Kosta, was David right to believe he would see his son again, or not?

Or is this question above your pay grade?

381 posted on 09/04/2008 9:11:42 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Kolokotronis; wmfights; Lord_Calvinus; enat; ...
Kosta, a question. Do you believe David was correct when he said he would see his son again, or was he wrong?

Forest Keeper left no doubt that this belief is a reasonable assumption, but not a fact. I couldn't agree more.

However, if it is true, than "saving faith" is an oxymoron.

God's grace alone saves men through faith alone

God's saving grace is not limited by our faith, or else God is not God. But that's what "through faith alone" suggests. If it is through faith alone then, by necessity, it excludes infants.

God's grace may extend to them through the perfect operation of His mercy. The Scriptural example of David's son suggests this to be true.

God's grace is unconstrained divine enegry of God's will (God saves whom he wants). The scriptural example of David reflect David's hope and not a fact. It made David feel good, all hope does. That doesn't mean it happened.

If you belive even one infant is saved, baptized or not, then you agree with Calvinists who say it is certainly possible for God to work His grace in the heart of an infant because that infant has accomplished no works which would earn his salvation

I do. I just don't see how that belief is consistent with "faith alone." In the Calvinist world, a saved infant is an exception to the rule. In my world, all salvation is a manifestation of God's perfect mercy, independent of what we do or believe.

We don't earn our salvation by works or by faith. Watever happens is, in spite of our works and belieefs, God's will alone, and by necessity it is perfectly just.

So, Kosta, was David right to believe he would see his son again, or not? Or is this question above your pay grade?

Funny you should even ask me this, as if it is on the level of your paygrade. Actually, it's above everyone's pay grade. But some people get delusional.

382 posted on 09/04/2008 9:53:05 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If you believe even one infant is saved, baptized or not, then you agree with Calvinists who say it is certainly possible for God to work His grace in the heart of an infant because that infant has accomplished no works which would earn his salvation.

Amen. Excellent answer, Dr. E.

419 posted on 09/05/2008 5:06:40 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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