Kolo: ...... As the father of a now 25 year old with Down Syndrome, I must say that Gov Palin is deluding herself if she thinks she can run for, let alone serve as, VP and be a good mother to a baby and youngster with mental retardation and the health challenges usually presented with it. She may not know it yet, but unless her plan is to “farm out” that baby, her life, the life of her husband and those or her other children have been profoundly changed by this birth...for the better I might add. Gov. Palin, however, seems to have rejected this gift of God in pursuit of her own ego. She’s no example of family values so far as I can see if her brand of Christianity tells her that what she is doing is right, then it is profoundly different from mine! (emphasis added)
Kosta: The first thing that came to my mind when I learned about her infant son's condition was sympathy. But then I found out that she has four other children, all of whom seem to be healthy. "What was she thinking?" I asked myself, but then the question morphed into "WHY?" Surely she must have been warned of the risks (for women only 4 years older than herself, the risk is staggering 1 in 10 pregnancies!). I could understand her desire to have children this late if she had none, but with four other children this just seems a little selfish, especially knowing the risk.
All I can say to both of you is WOW!!! :) I would have lost a lot of money if anyone had bet me "Who said these quotes?".
Like Palin politically, fine. Don't like Palin politically, fine. But who in the universe are any of us to judge God's plan for Gov. Palin, her and her husband's procreation, or her future (or her family's future) with the gifts God has given them? I can think of little else more inappropriately presumptive. Do you both think God can only raise a child to fulfillment if mom spends "X" number of hours per week at home?:
Ex 4:10-12 : 10 Moses said to the Lord, "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue." 11 The Lord said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."
Do you all suppose God only did this because the non-believer who raised Moses spent enough time with him? How about God makes these decisions? How about God has the power? Sarah Palin's son, Trig, will be exactly what God wants Trig to be, whether she is Vice-President or not.
Kolo, do you really feel qualified to judge whether Gov. Palin is rejecting God's gift by not following your prescription of being a good mother? Do you feel it is your place to declare it is not God's intention for her to be Vice-President because of this baby? The Bible says that's NOT your job:
Jer 1:4-5 : 4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
Dan 2:21 : 21 He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.
Rom 13:1-2 : 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Against whom is your REAL criticism here? You both say Palin is no good for running, but of course that is by your own standards. Perhaps God has His own standards and is taking care of ALL of this is His own perfect way. Would that be so terrible?
If you think about it, leaders are called upon to make sacrifices. Many times that includes not being able to be the perfect mom or dad by your standards. The Bible is FILLED with examples of people God has called who were then required to be away from their families for extended periods of time. Does that mean they should have said "NO"? Of course not, God has it all under control. The point is not that God appeared to Palin in a burning bush and told her she must do this. The point is that there is plenty of precedence for God's plan TAKING precedence over the normal course of a person's life for a specific purpose. It is not for us to judge whether God is doing that in this case based on whether or not she has a special needs child.
And as to her motives, Palin was pregnant with this child long before anyone in the world thought McCain had a snowball's chance in hell of being the nominee, OR that Palin would even remotely be considered as VEEP. She didn't lobby for the job. She did a couple of interviews and filled out some paperwork. So did a bunch of other people. Then she was asked, to the shock of most. For you guys to attack her for accepting the call to service, when it is GOD who decides, is beyond me.
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Kosta: I could understand her desire to have children this late if she had none, but with four other children this just seems a little selfish, especially knowing the risk.
And Kosta is the decider of this? What if she only had three children before, or two? I don't see ANY understanding on the part of the Orthodox that God actually is involved with these situations.
I also wonder what McCain was thinking when he chose her. Does he really think her gender by itself will do the magic of attracting Hillary's supporters?
Political issue, totally separate from my above rant. :) I think he wanted a woman, who was a younger McCain ("Maverick"), and would appeal to the base. Home run. I don't think he expects a zillion new women voters, but he will get some. He does give up something on the experience issue, however he can always point out that his ticket is at least right side up. I don't like Biden, but at least he is qualified to be President, Obama is not. Finally, she appeals to middle America voters as a regular person, more so than the other three. Of course the proof will be in the pudding, and she will either perform on the trail and in the debate or she won't. But for right now, THIS Christian conservative fully supports her! :)
She is a Gun Lobby member, eats moose burgers, hunts, fishes and is pro-life, and wants creationism taught in schools. How is she going to attract largely rabidly feminist, secular, pro-abortionist, liberal NRA-hating Hillary supporters?
In large numbers, she won't. If you think this "PUMA" thing is probably a fraud I would agree with you. But, she will get some, especially if Obama doesn't play his cards right. As of yesterday, Obama seems hip to the Lazio mistake. We'll see if it lasts. But in any event, she WILL have some built in shielding which is valuable.
I believe that citizenship is a right to be a qualified voter. I believe all voters should take voting-qualification tests and be issued a license to vote, the way all drivers require a license because our vote determines which way the country will drive.
I feel that way too many times. I just can't think of a way to pick judges of the tests. :) What constitutes "knowledge" of an issue?
Is this what our elections are? Blind guesses? Or beauty pageants? Is this what democracy is all about? Blind guesses?
Now Kosta, such harsh sentiments for blind faith? :)
Wow is right. I believe God raised Sarah Palin for a time such as this. Otherwise we might be stuck with a socialist who has way too many unanswered questions and a not so hot agenda for our country. As christians we need to pray for her and not be so darn judgemental. Arghhhhhhhhh.
1) Kolo: since you speak from such personal experience, I can fully understand your reaction. God bless your son and the 25 years you have been his loving father. Only someone who has parented a child with Down's Syndrome knows the extraordinary amount of time and effort and frustration and exhaustion and elation that comes with such a God-given task.
I think you're right, Kolo. Neither Sarah Palin nor her husband understands yet how their lives have been "profoundly changed by this baby." If they did, perhaps her choice to run would have been different.
2) Kosta, as my mother always told me, we do not have children when we decide; we have children when God decides to give them to us. At 44, I really would doubt this was a planned pregnancy. So it would be difficult to fault Palin for either the pregnancy, or for the brave choice to continue the pregnancy.
My two cents as a conservative is that Palin is a wonderful, energetic, intelligent personality for the Republican ticket.
My reaction as a wife and mother, however, is a little different. She's taking on an enormous work load (what could be greater in all the world?) while she still has small children at home, a son leaving for war, a pregnant, teen-aged daughter and a newborn who requires tremendous time and care.
The women's movement has been around long enough for a lot of us to know we can't "do it all." It's almost as if McCain saw the many fine attributes of Palin and didn't realize that some of those attributes might actually work against her because they rightly should come first in her life.
Whatever happens next, the election comes down to voting for a socialist or someone else. And I'll never vote for a socialist.
Whatever facts are available so far (read my other posts) indicate that there is good reason to doubt her decision-making, including her membership for 2 years in the 1990's in the separatist Alaskan Independence Party. [NYT, Sep 1, 2008], and that she was endorsed by the Alaskan Libertarian Party in her quest for governorship.
Does that give me confidence she is just right for the VP/Prez position? No it doesn't.
Do I judge her? You bet! That's what democracy is all about. As a voter, that's "my job," and if I didn't judge candidates I would be an irresponsible voter.
But I limit my judgments to evidence other than some gnostic knowledge of God's purpose in her or anyone else. If that's how nit is, why don't we just dispense with elections and ask some religious nut to ask God who is who and we could all save plenty of time and money.
In the meantime, I think I will stick with critical thinking and reason as a lot more responsible approach than simply assuming that such as such is a God-sent. How do you know Obama isn't? God told you?
Doubting a candidate, especially for such a high position, is a duty of every citizen until any doubt has been removed and until every peace of dirty laundry has been exposed and proven clean.
In the meantime, you can work on providing some sensible evidence that she is God-sent. Good luck.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
Amen Forest Keeper! My pastor, for over 50 years served a ministry to handicapped people, most with Down’s syndrome. I have seen with my own eyes that they are capable of coming to a saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. God knit them in the womb same as the rest of us, for His glory.