Stay Classy Daily Kos: Accusations Palin 'Faked Her Pregnancy' of Down's Syndrome baby

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/08/30/stay-classy-daily-kos-accusations-palin-faked-her-pregnancy-down ^

[kosta50]

Maybe you can first answer why would our government make available Iraqi government documents (before they had a chance to translate them) for everyone to see and then take them off public domain because someone may learn something that should be classified?

At any rate, you can't use something that is not available and verifiable as a "source".

Given your other links, your arguments are as good as UFO reports. Ore do you believe those too?

[kosta50]

Well, if it hasn't been done already, I'd feel much more comfortable responding if I had a quote to go from.

Oh, booohooo, FK. Google "Palin Iraq War God Plan" and see what you get...You can also hear it on Youtube. But, you are just stalling.

She said "Our leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. There is a plan and it's God's plan."

She is implying that "our leaders" are acting on behalf of God. That's jihad, and blasphemy, while we are at it. Everything we like we "bless" with God's name. How convenient.

Just as evangelicals make themselves official mouthpieces of God, they also tend to equate the Administration with the people. Being as unpopular as our "leader" is, this is is a caricature of reality.

On the Pipeline she sad it was "God's will," and then added "God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built. So pray for that. We can work together to make sure God's will [is] done here."

Maybe this kind of babble is coloqualism to evengelicals where everything has a God label attached to it, but to non-evangelicals this is a red flag big time.

There is nothing harmless about it and it is true only within the mindset of evangelical beliefs. The rest of the world begs to differ.

[Kolokotronis]

” One of you EO should start a thread to keep this before the FR Christians and ping us for prayers.”

That’s a good idea.

[Kolokotronis]

“She said “Our leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. There is a plan and it’s God’s plan.””

Satisfied FK? Now, either she’s saying that its God’s will that Eastern Christians get whacked by our friends with our weapons and under our protection...or she’s uninformed and running off at the mouth. Either way, she’s unfit to be a “heartbeat away” from the presidency and a real danger to this country.

[stfassisi]

Satisfied FK? Now, either she’s saying that its God’s will that Eastern Christians get whacked by our friends with our weapons and under our protection...or she’s uninformed and running off at the mouth. Either way, she’s unfit to be a “heartbeat away” from the presidency and a real danger to this country.

This country was not founded by people who followed the will of God in the first place ,Dear Kolo.So we should not be surprised by both political parties

Why would anyone put faith in any politician anyway? It's spiritual suicide!

I know that only prayer and fasting can drive out these kinds of spirits!

[kosta50]

God saves us from theocracy!

[Forest Keeper]

She [Palin] hasn’t condemned the foreign policy which is destroying Eastern Christianity has she?

Frankly, I haven't heard Palin speak on foreign policy yet. But of course, her job is simply to reflect McCain's views.

I don't think there has been any recent foreign policy that has been targeted against Eastern Christians for the fact of them being Eastern Christians. No one here has anything against Eastern Christians. Further, if any party is more pro-Islam it is the Democrat party. They are pro-Palestinian, they got us into the Kosovo mess, and they support terrorists' rights.

I suppose it depends on what the plan is. If by that you mean that there was a script for my life and I simply follow it, well, I sincerely doubt that the majority of American Christians believe that since as we all know, the majority of American Christians are not Calvinists and I know that the majority of Christians in the world don’t believe that.

Yes, I agree it depends on what the plan is. However, the Orthodox position as I understand it is that God has no plan at all. Man decides the course of history. That is what has been argued to me. I think most American Christians would disagree with that.

FK, it will come as no surprise to you that I don’t accept Palin’s theology of God mapping out a plan for Palin’s life anymore than I can accept that her talking in tongues will enhance the security of this country or the well being of the people. In fact, as I have said, I think its downright dangerous and not just for Americans.

I don't know if she has, but if Palin has said that God has mapped out a plan for her life that would make her a mainstream Christian. ........ Although she doesn't now, I know that in the past she attended a Pentecostal church. To my knowledge there are no confirmed reports of her ever having spoken in tongues. The left has tried to pin that on her, but have come up empty in terms of facts. Do you have a credible source for that ever happening?

If you do not, then it would appear that what you consider dangerous would be her view that God is in control. I would suggest that if God really was in control, it would be most dangerous to the Apostolic Church, not America or the world. :)

[Forest Keeper]

How do you know it was Kolo's answer and not something his doctor has been telling him all along for his son's 25 years ...? What makes Palin's doctor more knowledgeable than Kolo's?

I carefully built that possibility into my answer. What makes Palin's doctor presumptively better is that he or she is today. Kolo's doctor, if this is the situation, is from 25 years ago. With no other information, which doctor do you give the nod to? :)

[Forest Keeper]

FK: Can you show me where Palin has said that Iraq is a "holy war"?

I won't even go there because this is a diversionary tactic. She linked the Iraq war to God and his "plan." I am sure she didn't mean Allah. Perhaps you need to consult more than Fix News as your source of information.

Kosta, there is no diversionary tactic, I was reacting to YOUR OWN words. I am asking for you to give me a quote from Palin and a source, and I will be happy to comment on it.

Sarah Palin can come out and say something ridiculous like God building the pipeline and to non-evangelicals it sounds like woodoo, because like everything else in religion it's all in one's imagination.

I don't know the quote you are referring to and I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[kosta50]

I carefully built that possibility into my answer. What makes Palin's doctor presumptively better is that he or she is today. Kolo's doctor, if this is the situation, is from 25 years ago

Are you joking? Physicians not only get better with practice (it's called "professional skills"), they are also required to attend contnuing education to kepe up their academic knowledge in order to kepe their licenses. Your logic would have the youngest doctors as department heads. Sometimes I really wonder what you are thinking, FK.

[Forest Keeper]

FK: There is only one "religion", and then there is everything else. Christianity alone defines what is moral and what is not. There is no such thing as comparing one person's morals against another's.

Well the Founding Fathers didn't think so, as at least two were deists and two were Unitarists who, by your and my definition of Christianity are not Christians. Any mention of Christ is conspicuously absent from the Declaration of Independence, and the only reference to "God" is the one that says "endowed by their Creator, with unalienable rights." The Declaration also mentions "Nature's God" entitling them to Independence. Christ is never mentioned.

That's not correct since you appear to assume that the Founders must have been Apostolics and interpreted the Bible such as to not be aware of passages such as:

John 1:3 : Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Col 1:15-16 : 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

The Gospels also give other examples of the creative work of Jesus. He created wine, and He created food enough to satisfy thousands. You cannot tell me this was all lost upon Jefferson and his advisers at the drafting of the Declaration. When they said "Creator" they were thinking Christ. In addition, here are some excerpts from an article written by The Honorable Judge Robert Ulrich Chief Justice, Missouri Court Of Appeals, Western District (all with my emphasis): WERE THE FOUNDING FATHERS CHRISTIAN?

In the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, often called the first American Constitution, written in 1638, the drafters said, "[We] enter into a combination and confederation together to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which we now profess." This document recognized for the first time that mankind's rights come from God.

What about the people, the individuals, who actively participated in establishing this nation? Were they Christians? The truth is that some were and some were not, of course. But even those who were not were influenced by the principles of Christianity. By examining what many of them said and wrote we gain insight into their beliefs and the source of their commitment. Many of them had been influenced by the "Great Awakening" and its' residual effect. Around 1750, people like Jonathan and Sarah Edwards led in the expression of the awareness of God; the sinfulness of mankind; the consequences of sin; and God's mercy manifested by Christ's death and resurrection.

Patrick Henry, the great orator who said on the floor of the House of Burgesses in Virginia, "Give me liberty or give me death" also said,

It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.

...... Samuel Adams, cousin of John Adams, is called the "Father of the American Revolution." He incited the Boston Tea Party, signed the Declaration of Independence and called for the first Continental Congress. He said as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Samuel Adams also said, "First of all, I ... rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."

...... John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Fifty-three of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence were reportedly Christians. I have already referred to statements made by some. These are the statements of three less well-known signers. There are many more.

John Dickinson said, "To my Creator, I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity."

Gabriel Duvall, later a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and an appointee to the Supreme Court said, "I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ."

And lastly, John Witherspoon, pastor and President of New Jersey College (Princeton University today) said, "I shall entreat ... you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other" [Acts 4:12] ... [I] f you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness, you must forever perish."

Political Science professors at the University of Houston, curious about who influenced the founders, gathered 15,000 quotes made by them. The effort took over ten years. They reduced the number to those that had a significant impact on the founding fathers and the result was 3,154 quotes. They determined that the Bible was quoted far more than any other source. Thirty-four percent of all quotes were from the Bible, and another 60% of the quotes were from men who were using the Bible to make their point. God's word was important to the nation's founders.

There can be no doubt that the vast majority of the Founders were Christians in the modern sense. They recognized Jesus Christ as God and worshiped Him.

[Forest Keeper]

Creationism is not science, FK. You can teach in a religion class, but not as science. Apparently Mrs. Palin doesn't know the difference.

What is science, Kosta? Is it what most scientists say is the science of the day? Tell me why your Darwinist beliefs are science and creationism is not. Hundreds of years ago people who apparently would have held your view would have said that geocentrists were practicing science and those who followed Copernicus were not. IOW, you appear to argue that true science is determined by majority vote.

Beginning with the most unpopular President ever, George W. Bush, religion became part of politics.

You forgot the smiley face to indicate that this was a hilarious joke. Presidents from back when invoked God a hundred times more than they do today. Even liberal FDR was famous for talking about God. And for your consideration, this is from Washington's first inaugural:

Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow-citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously commence.

Religion became part of politics with Bush? :)

It is almost impossible now for a politician to do anything without declaring his or her faith. This is the tip of the iceberg of theocracy. Everything will be judged according to one's religious affiliation.

Not at all. Barriers just have to be crossed, that's all. It's news if it's new. Next time no one will care half as much. This year we had the first woman, the first African American, and the first Mormon seriously contend for the Presidency. That's A LOT of firsts for one cycle. Remember the big deal that was made over Kennedy being a Catholic? Now nobody cares about that. In the future, since we have crossed these hurdles of firsts, no one will care about this stuff either, at least concerning the winner.

We are looking at new Cromwellism and religious political correctness which is endangering American's principles of freedom of speech and beliefs, the inalienable rights given to all that the Founding Fathers believed in.

Your sentiments would be correctly directed toward the atheists and anti-Christians. For example, they are the ones who want to bring back the "Fairness Doctrine".

Again, this country is too ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse to be able to afford religious parities. It's a dangerous and potentially devastating development that is incompatible with the universal foundations this country rests on.

What do you mean by "religious party"? There are certainly enough people to have formed a Catholic party, or an SBC party, or an EOC party, etc., but no one has seen fit to do so yet. So what are you worried about? It is unConstitutional to shut out Christians from the political process BECAUSE they have religious views. How would you propose to weed out the Christians that you have determined are dangerous to the body politic?

[ozzymandus]

Hey, retard, Nixon and Carter both had lower approval ratings that W. Maybe you should get some information somewhere other than DU.

[Forest Keeper]

Thank you for the history about the pledge and the motto on our money.

FK: I think that the banning of God that you suggest is a denial of where our country came from.

I will put myself in the company of such "liberals" as Teddy Roosevelt, thank you. The country did not find it necessary to add God to the coins for 88 years since it's declaration as a sovereign nation. It was an afterthought.

Since my examples don't go all the way back, I picked bad examples. That is irrelevant to the overall point that Christianity was openly and widely practiced in government to a much greater degree than today. Jefferson attended regular Sunday Christian services as VP and President in the Capitol Building itself. Do you think that would be allowed today? No. It is folly to pretend that we were founded and intended to be a secular nation. We were intended to be a Christian nation, allowing those of other faiths the freedom to practice their faiths without recourse by the state.

By your standards the country was founded on liberal principles. I think some are trying to re-write the history.

I'm not sure what you mean. The word "liberal" sure has gone through some changes over the years. By today's standards, liberals had nothing to do with the founding of our country. In the Revolutionary War, they either would have surrendered immediately, or negotiated for a while, and then surrendered. There would be no United States of America today if the types of people who are today's liberals were the leaders back then.

[Forest Keeper]

Since Darwin’s theory is just that, a THEORY, then ID should at least be discussed. Learning is supposed to take place when there are different angles to a subject.

My thoughts exactly, and that is apparently Palin's position also. The "extremist" would try to ban any teaching of evolution, and Palin hasn't come close to anything like that. She only asks that some truth be thrown in there too for the students to consider. :)

[Kolokotronis]

“Hey, retard,...”

Nice. Are you proud of yourself?

[Kolokotronis]

“Why would anyone put faith in any politician anyway? It’s spiritual suicide!

I know that only prayer and fasting can drive out these kinds of spirits!”

Looking to politicians for spiritual guidance is indeed spiritual suicide, but its what an element of the Republican party, an increasingly large element, has been doing and apparently expecting the rest of us to do for some years now. I have never voted for a “Preacher in Chief” and I never will.

[xzins]

parities

You mean "parties"...right? I only ask because I can make the sentence make sense with the word 'parities." Odds are you mean 'parties," but I have to check.

I think we've had religious fervor driving a number of our parties through the years. Obviously, the abolitionist movement had a huge impact, and it was not the Republican party, but it was housed within it.

Other examples would include the "Mormon Wars" under Ulysses S. Grant. The Mormons didn't really fit into either party. There were just a lot of anti-mormons in both parties. The Temperence Movement was a religiously motivated group and they affected the parties enough to bring about an amendment to the Constitution. The Civil Rights movement was primarily within the Republican Party. The democrats were vehemently opposed, especially in the South. The pro-Life movement is again housed within the Republican party, and I must say that it is 100% correct to advocate the Right of each of us to live.

I think your characterizations of Palin as a radical creationist are based on nothing. She is not the only person in America who is pro-Discussion. I am.

[Marysecretary]

And isn’t that what education is all about? Learning different sides to the same story and making up your own mind about it? But no, they want you to believe evolution only. Argghh.

[Marysecretary]

Amen, Forest Keeper. Great job. You whittle down these ‘lies’ one by one.