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To: Jaded
The theory that an embryo doesn't have a soul and is incapable of "sensation" was and is wrong. It was based on the Platonist and Manichean dualism popular in certain ancient philosophies.

The idea that a soul was present only after "quickening" or when fetal motion was detected. Pelosi links this with the mystification about "when life begins" as if this is providing reasonable grounds for skepticism among Catholics. Don't miss the equivocation here. Life is a continuous process. All of the cells are always "alive." She is suggesting a fertilized ovum with a full set of human chromosomes may not have a soul (and is not a human "life") because of some ancient speculations of philosophers that Augustine was privy to. The Church's teaching on abortion is not contingent upon that. Whatever the reasons for the theory of delayed ensoulment in ancient times, we know better now from Ultrasound. So why didn't Ms. Pelosi and her staff mention that? The Church agrees with the scientific evidence available today.

Even if someone who adhered to the dualistic theory of delayed ensoulment wasn't sure whether the embryo had reached the stage when the soul was infused into the body, that wouldn't be safe grounds for inducing an abortion. It certainly would not be for partial-birth abortion in the later trimesters or Obama's "live birth" infanticides. What Pelosi said actually undercuts liberal abortion policies because most of these abortions are occurring when "ensoulment" would already have taken place according to these ancient theories! Ha! Take that, Ms. Pelosi, you liberal gasbag moron cretin!

According to the "ensoulment" argument, they should ALL be opposed to partial-birth abortion, "live birth" infanticide, and late abortions. Now if Obama isn't asked this question in a debate, the media isn't doing it's job. There is NO wiggle room for late abortions in Ms. Pelosi's "ensoulment" argument.

63 posted on 08/27/2008 11:37:22 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; Jaded
She is suggesting a fertilized ovum with a full set of human chromosomes may not have a soul (and is not a human "life") because of some ancient speculations of philosophers that Augustine was privy to.

The theory was pagan (Aristotelian), which +Augustine accepted. But, this cannot be a modern argument of feminist Catholic activists such as Pelosi, or her soulmates Biden, Kerry, etc.

As Catholics they are all bound to accept the dogma of Immaculate Conception which states very clearly that the Blessed Ever-Vrigin Mary was endowed with God's grace at the moment of her conception (by her parents).

The theory of delayed ensoulment speculates (probably based on observed forms of different gestantional stages of aborted fetuses) that what was inside the womb didn't always "look" human—since fetus (especially in the first trimenster) undergoes morphological changes that include such characteristics as gills, and other animal-like features—and therefore wasn't human.

But the dogma of Immaculate Conception puts this to rest, since God would not make a plant or an animal full of grace.

Pelosi, and the company that agrees with her, are preaching and practicing heresy, plain and simple. They can always become Anglicans. Anything goes there.

71 posted on 08/29/2008 10:56:39 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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