Posted on 08/20/2008 7:12:04 AM PDT by T-Bird45
OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.
WELEETKA (OK) — Authorities working to narrow their leads in the June 8 shooting deaths of two girls used old-fashioned legwork to come up with a list of area gun owners with .40-caliber pistols, one of two weapons used in the slayings.Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.
"It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI. That time-consuming procedure yielded the OSBI the names of more than 60 owners of .40-caliber guns in the Weleetka area.
Consequently, the OSBI sent letters to all those gun owners, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for test firings over the weekend at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah. About 40 of those gun owners showed up on Saturday and Sunday, and their weapons were fired once or twice and then returned to them.
The fired bullets and shell casings, meanwhile, were sent to a crime lab for analysis to determine if any of them match those used in the slayings of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.
Brown said about five of the gun owners no longer owned the weapons, but they provided the names of the new owners. The other 15 or so gun owners who did not show up will be checked by the OSBI to see why they didn't volunteer for the test firings.
"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help." Because the test firing of the weapons is voluntary, Brown said there isn't any constitutional violations involved.
"It's a process of elimination," she said, noting that the tested weapons may have been loaned out by the owners or someone else may have had access to the guns.
On Monday, when the OSBI announced that it had test-fired weapons, it stated in its press release that it had sent letters to the "registered gun owners." That prompted concern Tuesday among many in the public, who noted that Oklahoma does not have a gun-registry law nor a central database of gun owners.
Tom Harris, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Tulsa, confirmed that. According to Harris, most states, including Oklahoma, and the federal government do not have lists of registered gun owners.
He said the only way to get a listing of gun owners is by canvassing gun dealers or pawnshops individually to find out who bought weapons — as the OSBI did. Harris said gun dealers — "federal firearms licensees" — have to fill out ATF form 4473 whenever a weapon is purchased. The form lists the buyer, the address and other pertinent information.
They also have to contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to determine whether the prospective buyer can legally purchase a weapon. Harris said the 4473 forms stay with the gun dealers and are not submitted to any government agency. They are, however, available to law enforcement. If a gun dealer goes out of business, the 4473 forms are stored in an ATF warehouse, he said.
Although the OSBI made public that a .40-caliber weapon was used in the slayings, it is not identifying the caliber of the other gun used. Brown would not say whether voluntary test firings would be held for the other weapon.
Authorities believe the killers are from the Weleetka area, given the remote location of the girls' slayings. They said the killers had to be familiar with the area — N. 3890 Road (County Line Road) north of Coleman Road, about four miles northeast of Weleetka.
Skyla was visiting Taylor at her home when they decided to go for a walk that Sunday afternoon. They walked north from Taylor's home along County Line Road to the Bad Creek bridge, a half-mile away.
Investigators said the two had made it to the bridge and were returning to Taylor's home when they were gunned down. Their bodies were found in a shallow roadside ditch, less than 1,000 feet from the Placker home. They were found about 30 minutes after they had left for the walk.
Autopsy reports on the girls showed they had been shot a total of 13 times. Skyla, the youngest, was shot eight times, and she suffered the most .40-caliber bullet wounds. Authorities noted that each of the girls was shot with two weapons. The medical examiner recovered spent bullets from their bodies and described them as small- and medium-sized.
I am aware of that. as long as they conduct legal searches and investigate within legal means I have no issue.
You must have loved the Clinton-years with all that "For the Children" B-S.
The dead girls are a tragedy but the cops must play by the rules.
Really?
How about trying to find the murderer?
In neither this article, nor the one from yesterday did any of the OSBI agents manage to get a quote in edgewise about the $25,000 reward for information on the slaying.
They were killed in town. How about getting someone to come forward who thought they heard gunfire? Who saw a speeding car?
How about mentioning that in these articles instead of focusing on law-abiding gun owners?
You forgot to address the Second Amendment right to own that BMW, as you spit on the grave of all those millions who willingly gave their lives to prevent this kind of tyranny to occur.
Police checking on those who didn’t ‘volunter’ indeed.
Threats overt and covert are made during these chats, the coercion factor is high, and they work things so that the citizen feels heavy pressure to “volunteer”.
They are not using the volunteers to find the perpetrator, they are narrowing the group of people they need to strongarm into getting their firearm tested and inspected, while they are inside the courthouse or governmnet building, where some subtle interrogation can be applied without the bother of a warrant.
How right you are!
Wonder when they're going to show up in SD, and ask me if they can check mine?
You never know; it could have sneaked out one night, and hitched a ride with a rogue SUV...
Live Search Maps found 3890; it is two turns off I-40 and crosses I-40...
What are the chances the guns are registered lawfully to the killer?
What are the chances the police will misuse a registry of personal data about law abiding citizens? If identity theft of you social security account doesn't scare you, just think of your gun rifling data being reassigned.
By my calculation refusing to voluntarily add oneself to the registry is in one's best interest.
Tyranny is trying to find out who executed two girls on the side of the road?
That’s rich.
Maryland has required ballistic fingerprinting on all guns sold there for ages. And I don’t believe it’s solved a single crime.
The TV crime dramas like to make it look like it works, but it’s really just as subjective as polygraphs.
Basically, if your gun is ‘close’ then it’s your word against the ‘experts’ and you better have a rock solid alibi or you’re screwed.
They can come to my house. I can ask if they have a warrant. If they so no then they can leave. If they want to question me I say sure, with my lawyer present. If they ask why I need a lawyer I say the same reason so many of their fellow officers ask for one or a union rep when a cop is called in for a hearing.
You mean like they do in Britain, the bastion of the surveillance camera?
If it were a kitchen knife, could they go door to door asking people to have their knives tested for blood? Their hands, while they are at it?
Or maybe, like the Skakel case (I think), if the weapon were a golf club, then you could ask everyone who has a three iron to come on down to the station.
To make people a suspect because they legally own something is a little off. And asking for a ballistic test is making you a suspect.
One thing that's upsetting is the gun registration angle, which most FReepers dislike. If we had centralized registration, this would happen lots more often. They went knocking doors of AR15 owners during the Maryland sniper case until someone videotaped their interaction with the authorities.
If the police showed up at your door asking to see your gun “just for some testing”, would you comply without considering the risk you are taking?
Ballistic “fingerprinting” accuracy is way overblown, they could easily get a hit on your .40. How many times have they tested James Earl Ray's gun, and arrived at different conclusions? Now you are a murder suspect because some tech sees unique identifiers in your gun barrel, or on the ejected rounds, because you volunteered and in so doing waived some rights and guarantees.
Ah, but I am allowed to have an attorney present.
And you have already gone beyond the circumstances of this investigation so your suppositions are just chat room fodder.
“On what authority? “
If you are an FFL, the government can inspect your 4474 books any time, you cannot say no.
I have a friend that got rounded up in a bad situation just like that. FBI showed up cause he sold parts similar to one used in a crime across the country.
The lawyer fees weren’t pleasant. The lawyer fees were *REQUIRED* due to the constant threats and intimidation.
Those 15 people are in for a world of hell for months and maybe years.
You are right. The police is stupid. Please do us all a favor and take over the investigation...
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