Posted on 08/19/2008 8:51:07 PM PDT by flyfree
In some Western nations an utterly one-sided picture has been painted of the recent crisis in the Georgia-South Ossetia conflict. The statements of American officials would lead one to conclude that the crisis began when Russia sent in its troops to support its peacekeepers there.
Meticulously avoided in those statements: The decision of Tbilisi to use crude military force against South Ossetia in the early hours of Aug. 8. The Georgian army used multiple rocket launchers, artillery and air force to attack the sleeping city of Tskhinvali.
Some honest independent observers acknowledge that a surprised Russia didn't respond immediately. We started moving our troops in support of peacekeepers only on the second day of Georgia's ruthless military assault. Yes, our military struck sites outside of South Ossetia. When the positions of your peacekeepers and the civilian population they have been mandated to protect are shelled, the sources of such attacks are legitimate targets.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
me too...NATO, let’s roll!
Step One. Freeze all Russian State accounts in Western banks. Freeze the accounts of all Russian political leaders, too.
Step Two. Disband the G-8 and reconstitute the original G-7.
Step Three. Expel the Russian Ambassadors from all NATO countries and recall our Ambassadors for 'consultations.'
Step Four. Immediately invite Georgia and Ukraine into NATO.
Step Five. Move several squadrons of A-10's to Incirlik Air Base in Turkey.
Step Six. Move several squadrons of Air Force fighters to same.
Step Seven. Ship several hundreds of MANPADS to Georgia.
Step Eight. Ship several hundreds of JAVELIN missiles to Georgia.
Step Nine. Publicly offer the Georgian government access to US satellite data.
Step Ten. Tell Putin "your move."
L
My opinion, for what it’s worth..the politics of this region are foggy (and I am a total political junkie).
There is a lot of media manipuation (no way!).
Not many really know history.
I like it, Cowboy.
Could be there might be some conrtol and answers.
You are absolutely correct, the Cold War was fought on MANY fronts—all of them important. However, President Reagan was “the face” of the most successful of these efforts. I just think his tack was the most successful-—on multiple fronts.
Thank goodness for that since we've been there and done that and know how THAT one works out.
The best solution IMO would be all of Europe letting Russia know that if forced to choose, they will choose Georgia.
Gas and oil are fungible and Russia can NOT afford not to sell her gas and oil. If they refuse it to Europe, they'll have to sell it somewhere else and Europe can buy their supply from the other sources whose customers Russia sold to instead.
I understand that's a lot less convenient than the already set up systems, but it's doable unless Russia simply hoards their supplies. Their only other source of funding is weaponry and weapons related items and they've just recently been humiliated by at least one spectacular failure in Syria.
I suppose Putin and the other KGB/mafiya looters could pump some of their billions back into Russia to tide her over for a while, but I don't think they're going to do that.
Keep in mind that most Germans alive now remember The Wall and the horrible lives East Germans had under the Russians/Soviets. I think it's significant that Germany was the main one to put the brakes on Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO and now they've announced that they want it to happen.
NATO itself just spoke strongly but threatened nothing. Rice said the comments around the table were very strong. That MAY not be as weak as it sounds. That sounds like they realize this cannot be let go, but don't want to get Russia any tighter into the corner Russia has painted herself into.
Frankly I'd prefer that they'd just send in heavy duty bombers to take out every Russian tank (do they even still have any planes there?) and every R. ship in Georgian ports and say, "That's it. GTF out or die.", but I do understand that if they can get them out without that simply by letting the invaders prance around and pretend they got everything they wanted and then go home--well, obviously that's a lot better than risking the huge escalation. IF they GTF out without attacking Tbilisi or getting their hands on the pipeline (their real goal).
The other good solution would be IF as many have suggested, Putin/Medvedev have rivals who don't like the isolated position that P/M have left Russia in, the rivals arrest, kill or dispose of P/M in whatever way they like and simply announce that Russia is under new management and will pull out of Georgia PDQ. Obviously that possibility is not under our control, but it might be open to certain encouragements.
There are probably other good scenarios, but I'm about to fall asleep right now so I'm going to bed, but it's obvious that Russia is not in the catbird seat she wants us to think she is. If you've monitored foreign press, you already know that the world is NOT buying the BS Russia is putting out, and however scared they may be, they don't like it. Russia was apparently shocked to find out that many of her former vassals have united together against Russia and want in to NATO and want our missile shields.
Bottom line is that the choice is NOT necessarily grovel before Russia or get nuked. Those thug dictators have salted away BILLIONS looted from the people. I believe they want to enjoy them rather that starting a nuke war that will destroy them.
that all sounds fine but I’d get me a new Georgian president
he’s not a mule I’d hitch my wagon to against Putin
Yes, but while not direct participants in that appeasement, they did stand by and do nothing. The "America Firsters" where only slightly less effective in blocking any aide to the targets of Nazi aggression than the German American Bund. But the aide was blocked until the Germans declared war on the US, after Japan attacked and we acknowledged that a state of war existed between the US and Japan.
To our grandfathers' credit (actually my father served during WW-II, as did both my biological uncles), both groups dissolved for lack of support around December 12th, 1941. (Germany declared war on the US Dec. 11th and we acknowledged that state later on December 11th.
The Ukraine most likely. It has a similar "Russian" sub population. It's not a member of NATO (yet!).
Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are NATO members. An attack on them would bring automatic response by all the member nations, or kill the Alliance as some wimped out.
Thank you for your response..a little tired myself. :)
Not nearly so much as we are capable of inflicting on them, push came to shove.
They need to remember that before they go attacking our friends, and making off with US property too.
If not Georgia, then will we draw a line at Ukraine. If not Ukraine,...
For Russia it isn't about Georgia and it's sure not about Ossetia/Abkhazia either; it's about gas, oil, and pipelines. It's about control and boy do they want that back.
On the part of us cowboys it's not about, "whoopee let's get in a nuke war." It's about, let's not grovel in cowardice on our bellies in fear of provoking a ravenous beast who will remain ravenous and provoked and is going after what they want no matter who or how many it kills and no matter how we try to appease them. That seems to make them hungrier.
Right now the world is NOT buying into the BS being sold by the Russians. If everybody caves to them, soon no one will even dare to speak against their aggression no matter how naked and how destructive.
I think there is a happy medium as espoused by lurker upthread between nuclear war and appeasement.
Given what Bush is doing so far and how many growl on this forum I can only surmise many of yall are rather unhappy with the administration’s response so far.
all this talk about we can harm them more in a nuclaer exchange than them us ...and over Georgia is ridiculous.
I can imagine that right now the flurry of communications to resolve this continue unabated.
I'm not sure that's our bailiwick if you know what I mean. Seems to me that the Georgian people are in charge of that.
Unless of course you want to leave our Presidential politics up to other countries after all...
L
Chose between the Russians and Georgia?? A ludicrous thought; everyone knows that Russians are only good for target practice!
Remember, there was a good reason Patton kept his hands on his pearl handled revolvers while he was at a party hosted by the Russians!
Shoot the ISS down. That will settle that.
I’m 53 and the Russians have had nuclear missiles pointed at me every day of my life. F em.
No.
I suggest America do the same.
No.
Georgia can’t give us rides to the ISS.
The Putin-poot ostriches can take a ride with the Russians to the ISS.
Screw the ISS, screw Russia, screw their apologists.
I stand with Georgia 100%.
I like them all. Thank you so much!!
I like your percentage.
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