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Dec 15, 2006 Situation Room Transcript-=

We’re watching this, and we’ll get you more information as it comes in to THE SITUATION ROOM.

We’ll move on now to some other news.

He’s known by many as America’s pastor. And even those who aren’t familiar with Rick Warren have probably heard of his bestseller, “The Purpose-Driven Life.”

Let’s bring in our Mary Snow. She’s joining us for a closer look at this increasingly influential evangelical leader.

Mary, we’re going to speak with him in just a moment, but I want you to give our viewers some background.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you said, Rick Warren wrote “The Purpose-Driven Life,” and his messages from that book are part of his ministry teachings around the globe. Some say Warren’s influence is not only growing, but changing the relationship between evangelicals and the right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice over): Pastor Rick warren’s latest mission brought him to Washington for the White House summit on malaria. Wiping out pandemic diseases has become one of the cornerstones of the lessons he preaches. Lessons that have made him one of the most influential pastors in America.

E.J. DIONNE, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I think what you’re seeing with Rick Warren is almost a new version, a 2006 version, of Billy Graham. SNOW: But unlike Graham, who’s always seen in suits, Warren is often dressed in Hawaiian shirts. Most people know him as the author of the best-selling book “The Purpose-Driven Life.” It sold some 20 million copies worldwide.

He’s taken his message around the globe, even traveling to controversial countries like Syria. This past summer he tried unsuccessfully to enter North Korea.

PASTOR RICK WARREN, AUTHOR, “THE PURPOSE-DRIVEN LIFE”: I’m always happy to be a back channel for peace.

SNOW: But there was anything but peace earlier this month when Pastor Warren invited Illinois Democratic senator Barack Obama to his California mega-church to address the AIDS crisis.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: We must do what we can to prevent...

SNOW: Some conservatives and ministers were outraged since they adamantly oppose Obama’s support of abortion rights and embryonic stem cell research. Warren himself is conservative and opposes them, too, but he refused to bow to pressure and invited Obama on the pulpit, along with Republican senator Sam Brownback.

WARREN: You’ve seen the face of compassionate conservatism and the face of compassionate liberalism. And what we have in common is compassion.

SNOW: At least one political observer said the event marked a turn in American politics, predicting that conservative evangelicals and Republicans won’t always see eye to eye as they have in recent years.

DIONNE: I suspect most will continue to vote Republican. But Republican politics won’t be the most important thing to them anymore. It will be much more about what they see their Christian mission as demanding, and that will include some issues that aren’t traditionally associated with the right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Issues that include poverty, AIDS in Africa, and concern about the environment — Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Mary. Thanks for that.

This popular pastor also says his goal is to restore responsibility in people and credibility in churches.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, the author of the best-selling book “The Purpose-Driven Life,” Pastor Rick Warren.

Pastor Rick, I’ll call you. Thanks very much for coming in. WARREN: It’s good to be here, Wolf.

BLITZER: A good time of the year to have a serious discussion on a lot of the issues that are in the forefront for you.

You caused a bit of a stir recently by inviting Barack Obama to your church to speak out on some of the sensitive issues of the day. You were criticized by some evangelicals because he supports abortion rights, gay rights.

What’s your response to that?

WARREN: Well, you know, if you can only work with people you agree with 100 percent, you’ve ruled out the entire world, because I can’t even get my wife to agree with me all the time. So you’re going to have to work with people who have differences from you. And we had 60 speakers at this conference on AIDS, and Barack Obama was there, but so was Sam Brownback, Bill Frist, first lady Laura Bush, Bill Gates, Bono. There was a lot of people.

BLITZER: What did you think of Barack Obama?

WARREN: He’s an amazing man. I think...

BLITZER: Do you think he’s got it? In other words, he’s got that potential like so many other presidential prospects, to be the president of the United States?

WARREN: I think he does.

BLITZER: Because?

WARREN: I think he has good character. I think both Sam Brownback and Barack Obama — the reason I invited them both, first, they’ll tell you the truth. They’re not just going to beat around the bush. They’ll tell you what they believe. And I appreciate that.

Second, they’re men of civility. And I’m so tired of the rudeness we’ve got in our society where people are just mean to each other. We need to return to civility, which says, I treat you with respect even if I violently disagree with you. That we’ve lost the “civil” in civilization.

BLITZER: Are the American people ready for an African-American president?

WARREN: Oh, I think so.

BLITZER: Your congregants, what are you hearing?

WARREN: Well, I think that America’s ready for leadership any time. I think Sam Brownback, who was there, I think Barack Obama, I think there’s a lot of people in the field who are good leaders who could easily lead America with — because they’re clear.

BLITZER: Let me read to you what David Van Biema, writer for “TIME” magazine wrote.

“The invitation works perfectly for Obama. Through his autobiography ‘The Audacity of Hope’ and his public statements, the senator had already positioned himself as one of the rare potential Democratic presidential candidates who can truly talk the Christian talk.”

Can he?

WARREN: Talking the Christian talk is not nearly as important as being a person of character. And I think that in the — in this next election people are tired of partisanship.

I think whoever is going to get elected is going to be somebody who has the ability to draw people from different sides, even people who disagree with you, and say, let’s work on the greater good. Let’s work on the common good of our society rather than narrow casting, rather than saying I’m appealing to simply a base. I think base politics is out of date.

BLITZER: Here’s what one of your critics who didn’t like the fact you invited him because of his support for abortion said this, Wiley Drake, second vice president, Southern Baptist Convention.

“You can’t work together with people totally opposed to what you are. This kind of conference is just going to lead people astray.”

WARREN: Well, I disagree.

BLITZER: So you’re ready to reach out and work with people who have different...

WARREN: We will work with anybody...

BLITZER: ... even on a sensitive issue like that?

WARREN: There’s a difference, Wolf, between being an ally and being a co-belligerent. Francis Schaffer was a great writer who talked about this. And so did Wilberforce, by the way.

In other words, for instance, I’m a co-belligerent with the feminist movement when they’re opposing pornography. I don’t agree with everything in the feminist agenda, but I happen to agree with them on that, and I would work with them on that particular issue.

BLITZER: Let’s talk about some of the other issues that you’ve really made a name for yourself...

WARREN: Sure.

BLITZER: ... including North Korea.

WARREN: Yes.

BLITZER: You’re ready to reach out to Kim Jong-il and North Korea to do what? WARREN: Well, to preach the gospel. I’m a pastor, not a politician. And I report to a higher authority, where Jesus said, “Go into all the world, to every nation.”

Does that involve Syria? Yes. Does that involve North Korea? Yes. Does it involve Iran?

I’ll go anywhere as long as I’m not muzzled. Now, if they put restrictions on what I say, that’s a different issue. But I have a basic message that says you were made by God and for God, and until you understand that, life isn’t going to make sense.

And if I get the opportunity to share that, then I don’t go — I don’t ever go into these places as a politician. I don’t go in as a diplomat. I don’t go in as trying to take a job that’s not my job. But if I get an opportunity to go in and bring hope, encouragement, and the message of the good news, I’m going to do it.

BLITZER: And another major issue for you is dealing with the crisis of AIDS in Africa. You’ve gone there.

WARREN: Right.

BLITZER: You encourage people to go there.

Why did you decide that this was going to be a seminal issue for you?

WARREN: Well, you know, Wolf, AIDS is no longer a sexy issue. It used to be on everybody’s mind in the early ‘80s. And I think a couple of things have happened.

Hollywood has moved on from it. They’re now looking into adopting kids and stuff like that.

The reason, though, is that AIDS is worse than it was 20 years ago. In America, it’s become a chronic disease.

If you’ve got the money, you’ve got $10,000, $15,000 a year, you can live a pretty reasonable life with the antiretrovirals. What most people don’t realize is that around the world it’s exploding at an exponential rate.

Within a matter of 10, 15 years, there will be 100 million people who have AIDS or who have had AIDS. And it’s still a death sentence.

You’re going to die from it. And there is no cure. And so while the church is late coming to the table — and I really think we have to repent over that. I think we have to say, we were wrong, we were flat-out wrong. And I’ve said that publicly. But we’re in it for the long haul, and it is a — it is the greatest health pandemic in the world right now.

BLITZER: You’ve been described as the next Billy Graham.

WARREN: Nobody can replace Billy Graham. BLITZER: But what are you — let’s look down the road. America’s pastor, is that the kind of responsibility you would like to have one day?

WARREN: I never imagined I’d be sitting here talking to you, so I don’t predict the future. I’m not a prophet. I’m a local pastor of a church that happened to grow quite large, and I’ve spent most of my ministry just helping other pastors.

I’ve trained about 400,000 pastors in 163 countries. And so we kind of stayed under the radar for a long time. I intentionally said we’re never going to put our services on television like a weekly show because I didn’t want to be a celebrity.

BLITZER: Well, your book and your comments have certainly made you a celebrity.

WARREN: Kind of blew my cover. The book blew the cover.

BLITZER: You’re out there. And we want to thank you for coming in to THE SITUATION ROOM.

WARREN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Have a Merry Christmas and happy new year.

WARREN: Merry Christmas. Happy new year to you.