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To: Tramonto; All
Thanks for the link.

If the 2:05 time is accurate, then the Georgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs is wrong. Who issued the report stating 2:05?

If accurate, it is just another confirmation that the Georgians brutally attacked attack Tskhinvali BEFORE the Russians moved.

When Human Rights Watch entered Tskhinvali on August 13, the city was largely deserted. Human Rights Watch researchers saw numerous apartment buildings and houses damaged by shelling. Some of them had been hit by rockets most likely fired from Grad launchers, weapons that should not be used in areas populated by civilians, as they cannot be directed at only military targets and are therefore inherently indiscriminate. Also, Human Rights Watch saw several buildings that bore traces of heavy ammunition as if fired from tanks at close range. There was some evidence of firing being directed into basements, locations where civilians frequently choose as a place of shelter.

Since Georgian and Russian forces use identical Soviet-era weapons systems including main battle tanks, Grad multiple-launch rockets, BMP infantry fighting vehicles and tube artillery, Human Rights Watch cannot definitely attribute specific battle damage to a particular belligerent, but witness accounts and the timing of the damage would point to Georgian fire accounting for much of the damage described below. more (HRW also list infractions by the Russians that occurred AFTER the Georgian attack.)

In his speech the evening Saakashvili said... “I want to acknowledge that several hours ago, I, as supreme commander, issued a very painful order not to return fire in response to very intense shelling [of Georgian villages]”.

Saakashvili said that he had ordered the cease-fire in order to engage the South Ossetian secessionists in talks.

[OSCE talks were planned for the following day.]

Georgia claims South Ossetia broke the cease fire at 10:30. That's something we'll never know for sure. What we do know is that a few before, Georgia decided not to return fire even though they claimed they were under "very intense shelling". What we also know is that rather than deciding not to return fire (as they had done just a few hours before), or use suppressive fire, or use counterbattery fire in response to the alleged cease fire breach, Georgia initiated it's brutal assault.

The local hero, Joseph Stalin, would have been proud! Units from his home town of Gori played their special part!

So, comrade, do you agree with Georgia's brutal tactic of indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas?

BBC Tskhinvali

65 posted on 08/15/2008 2:54:28 PM PDT by F-117A (Mr. Bush, Condi, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: F-117A
I guess it's too much for you to read up that the claims of 2,000 dead are Russian propaganda - on-the-ground reports indicate a couple of dozen dead in South Ossetia.

And you and Human Rights Watch believe that the witnesses remaining in South Ossetia (i.e., NON-Georgians) are gonna tell the truth?

66 posted on 08/15/2008 2:59:15 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: F-117A
Everyone seems to agree a fight started at about 10:30PM The Russians were at the Roki Tunnel at 2:00AM. Lets say you are right and the Georgian troops did fire on Tamarasheni.

How did the Russian troops get to Roki Tunnel in 3 ½ hours from the start of the first shot?

Look at the road on Google maps it is a long windy mountainous road and the closest of any civilization is a mining operation is that is 10 miles away the closest very small town is 17 miles away and I do not know where the military base they came from is.

That means within 3 1/2 hours they would have to get orders to move. Load up the truck and drive down that long mountainous road from I'm not sure were.

i find their response time amazing. How did they do it?

79 posted on 08/15/2008 4:27:30 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: F-117A
I found I think their closes military base is near Mozdok about 120 miles away through a long mountain road.

I find it amazing they can travel that far from the time the first shots took place to the tunnel in 3 1/2 hours. just getting orders has to take time, then loading the trucks.

Looking at that road I don't think I could do it in a sports car if I was given the whole 3 1/2 hours.

84 posted on 08/15/2008 5:01:45 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: F-117A

So, comrade, do you agree with Georgia’s brutal tactic of indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas?

The actual civilian death toll in Tskhinvali. That was after days of fighting between the Russians and Georgians. Im sure that more have died but it is no where near the 2k that Russia is claiming. Im sure the Georgian death toll will be well over 2k before this is done. To answer your question though, Do you still beat your wife?


86 posted on 08/15/2008 5:07:53 PM PDT by Tramonto (Regime change in Russia)
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