Posted on 08/14/2008 2:36:49 PM PDT by RedRover
Government prosecutors, who filed an application in US District Court for an order compelling two Marines co-defendants to testify against their former squad leader, revealed that one of them was a government informant.
All three men are accused of executing four enemy combatants they captured in the opening hours of the month-long battle of Fallujah in November 2004.
Documents filed in the US District Court for Central California August 11 on reveal that Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, a co-defendant in the case against former Marine Jose L. Nazario, tried to trick his former squad leader into admitting the incident occurred.
Nazario, 28, is scheduled to go on trial next Tuesday in Riverside, California for killing two insurgent prisoners in Fallujah, Iraq, encouraging two subordinates to execute two other prisoners, and unlawfully using his rifle during the incident.
Nazario allegedly ordered Nelson and Weemer help him execute the enemy combatants after receiving radioed instructions to do so, the government claims.
US Attorney Thomas P. O’Brien asked US District Judge Stephen G. Larson to issue an order compelling Nelson and Sgt. Ryan Weemer to testify at Nazario’s trial. Nelson and Weemer voluntarily went to a federal lockup in May and June on civil contempt charges for refusing to talk to a federal Grand Jury looking at the evidence.
If they refuse to testify at Nazario’s voluntary manslaughter trial, they face criminal contempt charges and mandatory jail time, the defense says. Weemer’s attorney Christopher D. Johnson has already told the court Weemer will not testify, the documents showed.
Nelson’s civilian attorney Joseph Low is reportedly weighing a government offer of limited immunity in return for his client’s cooperation. Low has not returned telephone calls regarding the government offer.
Both infantrymen are currently under open arrest at nearby Camp Pendleton, charged with voluntary murder and dereliction of duty during the same November 9, 2004 encounter.
The superior who allegedly radioed the order to Nazario has neither been charged nor identified.
Nazario was initially indicted on August 7, 2007 for two counts of voluntary manslaughter allegedly committed during the battle. The indictment was based on a Naval Criminal Investigative Service complaint alleging that Nazario, Weemer and Nelson killed four prisoners after receiving radioed instruction from an unidentified superior to do so.
Nazario is charged under a new law that allows the government to prosecute former service members for crimes allegedly committed while under military jurisdiction. It is the first time a Marine has been charged under the law.
Nelson and Weemer are charged by the Marine Corps and face general court-martials.
In the applications for the ex parte orders US Attorney Thomas P. O’Brien asked the court to make Nelson and Weemer testify about what they did and later said about the alleged incident. In the narrative supporting the government’s request O’Brien revealed that, during January 2007, Nelson agreed to help trap Nazario by recording telephone calls between the two former comrades-in-arms.
On January 8, Nelson, under the direction of Naval Criminal Investigative Service Special Agent Mark O. Fox and with the approval of Marine Corps prosecutors, made his first call to Nazario.
During the conversation Nazario and Nelson discussed the alleged killings in a cryptic conversation that the government claims clearly demonstrates that Nazario participated in the executions, the government documents show.
In one instance the secretly recorded conversation turns to what Nazario would say if he was asked during a polygraph test whether he had ever murdered anyone. Nazario apparently didn’t respond so Nelson, who is African-American, then asked Nazario, “I mean we had the right orders, didn’t we?”
Nazario responds, “Yeah.”
Nelson then asks, “Who gave us the orders though, n-gger?”
Nazario responds, “I did.”
After a brief time Nazario expands on his explanation, the government claims.
“That sh-t is coming from the battalion commanders. We got to get from Point A to Point B and we ain’t got time to throw motherf-ckers on a truck ‘cause we’re moving.
"It was, you know, a decision we made because it was the outcome that was best. So it was, it was a decision. You can’t play Monday morning quarterback, bro.”
The government acknowledges that the enemy combatants the Marines allegedly killed have never been proven to exist. Neither is there an identifiable crime scene, forensic evidence, or any missing persons report, government evidence shows.
During the battle, Marines from Nazario’s company encountered foreign fighters from 17 nations opposing their advance into the al Qaeda-controlled city, the Marine Corps said.
Nazario’s platoon leader, radio operator and the platoon’s senior Marines wearing private inter-squad radios that day in Fallujah told Fox in recorded, sworn statements that no such order was ever sought or given on any Marine Corps radio used during the operation.
Nazario’s defense attorney Kevin B. McDermott says Nazario’s claim of innocence is supported by the absence of any physical evidence indicating that a crime was ever committed.
Without convincing physical evidence that government is trying to prove that the killings occurred using the confused and conflicting statements of Nelson, Weemer and several other witnesses who claim they heard shots and subsequently saw dead bodies without seeing what actually happened, their statements to Fox revealed
The government’s initial complaint alleged Nazario killed two prisoners in the heat of passion after witnessing the death of squad member LCpl Juan E. Segura, the first Marine to die in the battle of Fallujah.
Before Nelson obtained legal counsel he told Fox in two statements that he shot one insurgent with his rifle, Weemer shot another prisoner over and over again with his pistol, and Nazario executed the remaining two with his rifle after getting a radioed instruction to do so.
Weemer, also without legal counsel, told Fox he can’t remember whether he personally witnessed the alleged radio conversation or heard about it from somebody else. Weemer also told Fox he executed one prisoner with a single shot from his pistol. He denied knowing who shot the other prisoners.
Nazario says the incident never happened at all.
Bump
I hope McDermott has a ping and a prayer. Very optimistic on his trial.
Two sir!
Anyway we look at it. These Marines and their counter part soldiers dealing with such scenarios just don’t have many options. When I think back on the two Fallujah operations, obviously the first one being a fizzle and seeing some of our Marines die without a chance, and the many other major operation in al Anbar and elsewhere, in rough urbane fighting, I cannot help but think there should be some loop holes to let our guys of the hook when their options run out and they have to plug someone.
I can ping,here’s a bump.
A ping or bump from you is always appreciated, fatima!
((((Hugs))))A ping from you means prayers:)
If this incident did happen as alleged the Marines options were limited to bad and very bad.
They could stay where the were, guard the prisoners until someone picked them up. Obviously not possible.
They could return the prisoners to the rear and then continue the mission. Again not possible.
They could split the squad and have some Marines stay with the prisoners or return them to the rear, obviously endangering the entire squad.
They could take the prisoners along hoping that they would remain docile and not alert the enemy. Not likely.
Too bad the ncis, the iraqi government and the msm spend so much time on this crap when the terrorists have tortured and murdered every American captured and slaughter Iraqi forces and police and women and children on a daily basis.
Truly, this is a mess. There are no bodies. There is no crime scene. There are no forensics. This was the bloodiest BATTLE in Iraq. The point of this battle was to kill insurgents. Some say insurgents were killed, others say they weren’t. A couple of days after this “possible” engagement, the ROE’s were opened up to “shoot anything that moves”.
What is the point of this whole prosecution.....especially in civilian court?
The point is lost on me as well.
I’m very nervous about the upcoming trial. I’m glad Nat will be there on Tuesday when it gets underway.
This mess is a lesson in keeping your stinking mouth shut. Never, ever give the scumbag prosecutors anything they can wet their pants over. Ever. Do what you have to do, then just STFU and carry on. In any event, this case looks like a loser for the scumbag prosecutors. They have nothing but cluttered and conflicting hearsay testimony.
It does sound like Nazario is asked a hypothetical. IF Nazario were in the middle of a lie detector test what would Nazario say if he were asked if he had ever murdered anyone? Or could it be that Nazario is answering what Nelson should say if Nelson were in the middle of that polygraph test? Is Nazario helping Nelson with Nelson's fears? Is that why he says at the end "YOU (Nelson) can't play Monday morning q'back?"
Nazario telling Nelson how to respond since Nelson has aparently admitted shooting unarmed men?
Also, in his response to Nelson, WHEN does Nazario leave the hypothetical, IF he EVER leaves off answering the hypothetical?
In one instance the secretly recorded conversation turns to what Nazario would say if he was asked during a polygraph test whether he had ever murdered anyone. Nazario apparently didn’t respond so Nelson, who is African-American, then asked Nazario, “I mean we had the right orders, didn’t we?”Nazario responds, “Yeah.”
Nelson then asks, “Who gave us the orders though, n-gger?”
Nazario responds, “I did.”
After a brief time Nazario expands on his explanation, the government claims.
“That sh-t is coming from the battalion commanders. We got to get from Point A to Point B and we ain’t got time to throw motherf-ckers on a truck ‘cause we’re moving.
"It was, you know, a decision we made because it was the outcome that was best. So it was, it was a decision. You can’t play Monday morning quarterback, bro.”
Gotta agree 100% on the STFU thing.
Methinks they (the prosecutors) are trying to pull the cork on the genie bottle. They are treading on very dangerous ground from where I’m sitting. I am amazed (not) that more people aren’t reading about this and screaming loud and long.
I have been pondering the conundrum of prosecutors. Apparently God created a special type of person who can shove their head so far up their a$$ it pops out the other end giving the appearance of normality. Such are the stuff prosecutors are made of. To expect any behavior from them other that what we are getting would be to tamper with the very fabric of the space/time continuum. And things are tough enough as it is.
The answer to what the prosecutors want may be found in the answer to the Hawking paradox. Next time you are wandering around lost in the seventh dimension Girl, watch what you are stepping in, the answer may be found on the bottom of your shoe.
I couldn’t agree more with what you wrote.
The point is crystal clear to me; it is to prosecute the war effort; to find/make/create/cause some dirty deed that they can use to color the whole war; red meat for the unwashed hordes who still have some spit left over from Vietnam and a pocket full of skat left over from the 2004 elections.
They want their Quagmire and they want it now.
xzins makes an interesting point.
Was this just Nazario trying to help Nelson out? He sure didn't say he killed anyone or that he ordered anyone to.
Are there out takes we don't know about?
Also, I still have this gnawing feeling that the reason the DA wants help from a Marine attorney is that maybe Fox didn't do things by the book as far as things like Miranda rights and/or the military right to know you are a suspect (someone help me out with that term) in a crime before you're questioned.
I would think that Weemer and Nazario should have had their Miranda rights read before Fox interrogated Weemer, then Nelson, at the behest of Fox, interrogated Nazario by trying to put words in his mouth while under threat of prosecution, so that makes that discussion worth absolutely nothing, and as this investigation was conducted under the auspices of the UCMJ (right), all three of them should have been informed they were under suspicion of a crime before they were questioned at all.
Instead, every piece of "evidence" collected was by deceit and duress ~ the classic NCIS "Hey, let's just have an informal chat to clear up some details.....you don't say...uh hunh...Thank You very much. We was jus kidding about you not being in any trouble. You are in huge trouble, and if you don't do and say exactly what I tell you to, you're spending the rest of your life in prison. But don't worry, it's not really you we're after. You just have to fall on your sword for the sake of the Marines so we can get the guys who are really responsible, and you'll probably get a slap on the wrist, especially with my recommendation - just don't forget that can work both ways if you don't cooperate. So here, sign this form, it's just basic legal stuff to show you've been contacted, and btw, do you think I look a little like Telly Sevalas?"
I AM surprised more folks aren’t following this case, actually.
I know some people think, if a “war crime” was committed, let the chips fall where they may, regardless of the consequences. Truth and justice matter. But in this case, common sense tells me the future of the military matters more than whether unknown insurgents were killed with ROE’s that were likely acceptable just a few days later in the battle.
The Marines/NCIS/US District Courts are letting every serviceman know they are at risk for engaging in any combat, by trying this case. To let civilians judge combat actions years later is unprecedented as far as I know.
Truth and Justice matter. But won’t if this prosecution succeeds. Then those two things will be gone. The truth will be whatever they say it is. And it won’t just be Servicemen who can be prosecuted for nothing. It will be you too, Girl. There is no case here.
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