Georgian army flees in disarray as Russians advance

TimesOnline ^ | August 11, 2008 | Tony Halpin

[tobyhill]

They have no chance and if they can make the Russians believe this will be another Afghanistan they will back down. Russia can't afford another Afghanistan.

[redstateconfidential]

Yea I like that,..just give them Georgia.Hows that worked out in the past? Make there further advances more painful?
No further advances period.

[kronos77]

I dont know, but it seems that population newer wanted the offensive on ossetia at the first place.
No one in Georgia believed that there will be war with Russia.
And in the other hand many of Georgians disslike Saakashvilli.
As for west-trained troops, well most of Central-american countries have their armies trained by US instructors... Includind ARV troops...

[SolidWood]

If we only knew someone with insurgency experience, tactics, IEDs, etc., drumming fingers . . .

Officers of the Afghan Army, who fought the Soviets. Kurdish Peshmerga in Iraq.

[kronos77]

As much as 2-3 squadrons, no more I believe. Air strikes are not massive.
When US and NATo attacked us, in Serbia they used 400-1,200 planes.

[ETL]

Say what?

Yeah, it looks like we've got a few Putin loyalists on this site, perhaps with a similar craving for restoring Russia to its 'glory days'.

Putin on "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century":
"World democratic opinion has yet to realize the alarming implications of President Vladimir Putin's State of the Union speech on April 25, 2005, in which he said that the collapse of the Soviet Union represented the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'
http://www.hooverdigest.org/053/beichman.html

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html

Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
Reuters: Aug 17, 2007

CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.

"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.

Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.

The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.

Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29030120070817?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

U.S. Navy Intercepts Russian Bombers Flying Near Ships
Monday, February 11, 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330362,00.html

From National Public Radio (NPR):
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been visiting countries such as China, Iran and Russia as part of an effort to build a 'strategic alliance' of interests not beholden to the United States. He considers the United States his arch enemy.":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5729764

From the Russian News and Information Agency:
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060727/51913498.html

From WorldThreats.com:
"Chavez pledged that his country would 'stay by Iran at any time and under any condition,' state television reported. Ahmadinejad said he saw in Chavez a kindred spirit." "'We do not have any limitation in cooperation,' Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying. 'Iran and Venezuela are next to each other and supporters of each other. Chavez is a source of a progressive and revolutionary current in South America and his stance in restricting imperialism is tangible.'":
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/29/world/main1847331.shtml

_____________________________________________________

"the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century"-Vladimir Putin (2005) on the so-called 'collapse' of the Evil Empire/Soviet Union
_____________________________________________________

"'The Black Book of Communism,' a scholarly accounting of communism’s crimes, counts about 94 million murdered by the supposed champions of the common man (20 million for the Soviets alone), and some say that number is too low."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmY0MjI1MDgyYjg1M2UwNDMzMTk2Mjk5YTk0ZTdlMWE=

[brytlea]

Beyond that, I don't think there's anything "military" that we can do in Georgia that won't be interpreted by the Russians as an act of war -- and the ugly choice facing the President is whether or not Georgia is worth getting into a serious war over.

Which makes me think--does Russia care what we might interpret as an act of war?

susie

[brytlea]

True, they won’t even weigh in...it’s an inconvenient truth.
susie

[Timedrifter]

But the Russians outnumbered the Chechens by a much larger margin. The Chechen’s had very little equipment at all yet it would take days for Russians to even take a small village. The Russian army could not have improved that much in a few years. They are not even using their best stuff in Georgia from what I can see.

[Tallguy]

Tanks have very real weaknesses that can be exploited by trained infantrymen under certain circumstances.

Tanks that are buttoned-up are relying on their viewports. They can see a long way on open terrain, but might not see an infantryman standing next to them. That’s the key.

Catching tanks at river crossings, urban areas, wooded roads — that’s where you set up your defense. You can’t beat them on open ground with a lot of arty or air superiority.

[goldstategop]

Now its wanton aggression. Whatever the Russian justification for taking South Ossetia and Abkhazia are, there's none for trying to subjugate an independent country through armed force.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[SolidWood]

I mentioned planes, tanks, AFV artillery... the Russians are moving in thousands of them. I wonder what the long columns pouring into Georgia consist of? Hm? As always the Russians are putting their trust in sheer mass.

[brytlea]

It would seem so to me.

susie

[Owen]

People,

It is a new world. This is not the Cold War. This is not Soviet or Russian expansion.

This is about what determines the dominant force of this century — oil. That pipeline through Georgia puts Russia’s hands on the price tag of oil. They can enforce their will on Europe and it’s 11 million bbl/day consumption by controlling the 750K bbl/day that flows through that pipeline.

This is not yesteryear. This is tomorrow — and tomorrow holds unceasing wars over oil.

[ETL]

That ‘community activist’/community organizer is a student of the Alinsky school of Marxist ‘change’. It is more likely that Obama would side with the Russians in their expansionist behavior.

You got that right!

From Accuracy In Media | AIM.ORG

Frank Marshall Davis

Obama’s Red Mentor Praised Red Army
AIM Report | By Cliff Kincaid | April 30, 2008

Barack Obama’s childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, a member of the Moscow-controlled Communist Party USA, wrote a poem dedicated to the Soviet Red Army. “Smash on, victory-eating Red Army,” he declared. He also wrote poems attacking traditional Christianity and the work of Christian missionaries.

The “Red Army” poem goes beyond hoping for the communists to beat the Nazis in World War II and hails the Soviet revolution. It says:

Show the marveling multitudes
Americans, British, all your allied brothers
How strong you are
How great you are
How your young tree of new unity
Planted twenty-five years ago
Bears today the golden fruit of victory!

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/obamas-red-mentor-praised-red-army/

____________________________________

Obama’s Communist Mentor
AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | February 18, 2008

excerpt...

"through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his 'poetry' and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just 'Frank.'

The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations."

Frank Chapman, a CPUSA supporter, has written a letter to the party newspaper hailing the Illinois senator's victory in the Iowa caucuses:

"Obama’s victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle. Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary 'mole,' not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through."
People's Weekly World (PWW), official newspaper of the Communist Party, USA

Source article: Obama’s Communist Mentor
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/

[Ulysse]

“Anyone will risk open war with Russia”....

ANYONE? OK
Now let RUSSIA,IRAN,CHINA rule the world,surrender and obey your masters

[kronos77]

As for armor, Russians used 150 pieces, tanks, APCs but 150 together to push back Georgians.
That “thousands” is used to describe ENTIRE russian army.
Actually There are as much as 30,000 Russian troops alltogether and those are parts of 58th army, not even whole 58th army.

[LowTaxesEqualProsperity]

It is scary and I agree with you.

We face resource wars.

[kronos77]

People, It is a new world. This is not the Cold War. This is not Soviet or Russian expansion. This is about what determines the dominant force of this century — oil. That pipeline through Georgia puts Russia’s hands on the price tag of oil. They can enforce their will on Europe and it’s 11 million bbl/day consumption by controlling the 750K bbl/day that flows through that pipeline. This is not yesteryear. This is tomorrow — and tomorrow holds unceasing wars over oil. ------------ Unfortunatly that is true. Oil is behinde all of this.

[Tallguy]

If the Russians intended to take Tblisi, it would already have fallen in the blitzkrieg. It would have been easy for them.

You might be right. In Afghanistan the Russians used Paratroopers & Air Assault troops to secure Kabul well before the tanks rolled in. If Russia wanted Tiblisi I suspect that's what they'd have done.