Algae May Be an Energy Answer

The New American ^ | August 18, 2008 | Ed Hiserodt

[LomanBill]

>>significant production is LOST.
>>(Law of the Sea Treaty)

How so?

[LomanBill]

>>I wouldn’t think foreign algae would be too much of a
>>problem; they would just get swept up and processed
>>along with all the other trough algae.

Especially if the system were a large recirculating closed loop. Fresh spores of the “good” algae could be introduced just after the extraction point.

[LomanBill]

>>The methane could be used to provide heat and light for the
>>algae. The ethanol could be used to transesterify the algae
>>oil to fuel.

Beautiful ;-)

[LomanBill]

To expand on that.

What if the algae could be made to cling to the surface of the tubes via an attraction like static electricity.

You could generate a photo voltaic current and conduct it through surface the tubes. When the current is shut off, the algae are released and harvested.

I say that having no idea what the electrostatic properties of algae are. But I wouldn’t be surprised if some FReeper knows all about algae’s electrical properties... ;-)

[Free Vulcan]

I’ll throw in that in the ethanol production the protein and oil in the corn are extracted up front...if you use corn at all.

I don’t know alot about gas extraction of oil, but from what I understand it doesn’t use heat. I wonder of the oil could be extracted and allow the algae to live.

[LomanBill]

>>I wonder of the oil could be extracted and
>>allow the algae to live.

Perhaps a genetically engineered algae that produces oil as a waste product?

What does algae do with the lipids? I assume they’re using them as stored energy? Maybe they just need to be convinced they don’t need to store it?

[Carry_Okie]

If you want to grow enough algae to produce energy in the ocean it will take a LOT of area. That WILL have an environmental impact. To ratify LOST is to put environmental management of the oceans under the direct control of the NGOS who live off all that lovely racketeering money.

If the oil interests behind those groups want us dependent upon them they'll find some unacceptable impact to sufficient aquaculture to produce the biodiesel. They only way they'd let it happen is if they get to make the money.

[Neoliberalnot]

“”Because it makes both gas and food more expensive?””

A very small fraction of why both commodities have increased in price is due to ethanol. 98% of the reasons have to do with falling dollar value and global competition for resources by China, India, Brazil, and Russia. I have heard your arguments from the oil industry before.

ETOH as a fuel additive commenced in the 70s. Food has been subsidized since the 40s because USDA policy is to keep it cheap. I would have no problem doing away with all subsidies across the board for all industries, retirement and healthcare, but I won’t go along with singling out agribusiness only.

“Also, the incentives to keep business local is usually absorbed by the community in which the business exists - the community receives a direct benefit there.”

Just as communities, states and the country receives benefits from the myriad of other incentives. Are you saying that agribusiness brings no benefit to local/rural communities. Please!! Again, I don’t have a problem with doing away with ALL incentives and letting the free market rule, but selecting agribusiness to vilify while other incentivised entities exist doesn’t strike me as fair.

“Federal mandates and subsidies are not local.” Understand, but many of the benefits are local—I thought that was what you favored.

[supercat]

Especially if the system were a large recirculating closed loop. Fresh spores of the “good” algae could be introduced just after the extraction point.

The water would recirculate. The algae wouldn't, but the algae spawning plant at the top of the hill would generate more. Thinking about it, even with such a system one might still need to cover the troughs with something transparent to control evaporation. Hmm...

[count-your-change]

Valcent has been running a test plant, El Paso I think, and they harvested algae at the rate of 276 tons/acre. Valcent said that would translate into 33,000 gallons of oil with the right algae.
Glen Kertz, pres./ceo of Valcent said in an interview that getting production costs down to petroleum was the goal so apparently they've quite a way to go. But they will be interesting to watch.
Renton, Washington (700 thousand people, 86 million gallons of sewage/day) is running a sewage to gas pilot project. Here is an bit of info.,
“New Gas-Turbine Generator
The South Treatment Plant, among the 33 largest sewage plants in the nation, produces about 770,400 cubic feet of digester gas per day, but uses only 18% to 20% of this supply to run the fuel cell. Under ideal conditions, the rest of the gas is now sold to Puget Sound Energy—but by the end of 2005, most of it will be burned in a new dual-fuel gas-turbine generator capable of burning digester gas or natural gas.......
The South Treatment Plant’s average daily power consumption is 7.5 MW, but during storms its demand can rise to a peak of 24 MW. Together, the 1 MW fuel cell and the new 8-MW gas-turbine generator will more than cover the plant’s entire electricity base load, though it will continue to rely on PSE for peaking power.” (www.foresterpress.com/de_0511_fuel.html - 41k)
Pittsburgh with its population of around 300 to 350 thousand would have more than enough sewage to produce useful amounts of gas.
So whether algae oil will pan out is highly questionable. By the Valcent’s most optimistic projections it would cost $2.4 trillion to supply just 1% of U.S. transportation fuels and three times that cost by realistic estimates.
$2.4 trillion is about what the federal government took in in taxes last year.

[Wonder Warthog]

"The South Treatment Plant’s average daily power consumption is 7.5 MW, but during storms its demand can rise to a peak of 24 MW. Together, the 1 MW fuel cell and the new 8-MW gas-turbine generator will more than cover the plant’s entire electricity base load, though it will continue to rely on PSE for peaking power.” (www.foresterpress.com/de_0511_fuel.html - 41k)

Which, as I said, is an insignificant amount of power. Assuming they are using all the nutrients available, it takes the entire poop output of Renton to generate enough methane to run the poop processing plant. Not terribly practical.

[Free Vulcan]

I honestly don’t know. Stored energy is a good guess. I do know that they only produce oil in quantities when stressed.

They need to be engineered to produce it when thriving, like as a waste product as you suggest. I haven’t kept up in the last few months but I know they’ve made serious advances along that line.

[count-your-change]

Actually it only requires a small percentage of the city’s daily output. And producing enough electricity for 8,000 home isn’t too bad for a pilot plant using waste.
Sounds way better than algae oil.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Actually it only requires a small percentage of the city’s daily output. And producing enough electricity for 8,000 home isn’t too bad for a pilot plant using waste."

Proof, please. How MUCH of the city's daily output??? And 24 MW is, in my book, an insignificant amount of power.

"Sounds way better than algae oil."

Not really. Methane from poop isn't a transportation fuel, which is what is needed most.

[count-your-change]

Here are two web sites that covered the Renton, Washington project, www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335635 - 58k - Cached - Similar pages
dnr.metrokc.gov/wtd/fuelcell/ - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
One link I posted to one site doen’t work so if You google , “Distributed Energy Renton Washington” and then find among the first few sites, “Distributed Energy/ Fuel Cell Uses Bio-gas From Sewage to Generate.....” it has some more details. If you have any trouble locating them let me know.
But the math is: the city discharges 86 million gallons of waste/day and the gas generation uses about 1 million gallons/day. That’s less than 2%.
CNG(mostly methane) can be used as a motor fuel and is. So far what algae oil has generated is extravagant claims and press releases. I’ve already posted many of them so I’ll not repeat them here.

[Wonder Warthog]

"But the math is: the city discharges 86 million gallons of waste/day and the gas generation uses about 1 million gallons/day. That’s less than 2%."

Sorry, but that's still not particularly impressive.

"CNG(mostly methane) can be used as a motor fuel and is. So far what algae oil has generated is extravagant claims and press releases. I’ve already posted many of them so I’ll not repeat them here."

The difference is that people have been trying to generate methane from "poop streams" for more than half a century (or longer), and nobody has succeeded in coming up with a practical way to do it economically. Algae oil, on the other hand, is VERY young, and very much in the R&D stage, but given that early stage, what has been accomplished thus far is pretty impressive (I do R&D for a living, so I have a passing familiarity with bringing new ideas to fruition). Given the possibilities of genetic engineering available today, I think the available "space for improvement" is a LOT higher for algae oil than it is for biomethane. I suspect eventually someone will come up with a bug that eats cellulose, and poops diesel directly,

[GBA]

To be honest, I've been more or less saying that since the 70s.

"Yep, any day now...right around the corner...be here before you know it..."

[count-your-change]

Solazyme claims they've produced an oil that can be used as diesel fuel without any further modification. Whether their algae eats cellulose I don't know.
By the by, When I said 1% here I should’ve said !0%,
“ Valcent’s most optimistic projections it would cost $2.4 trillion to supply just 1% of U.S. transportation fuels..”
But as you say, “Sorry, but that's still not particularly impressive.”
Well, if I can't impress you and I can't convince you I'll just have to say good night and dream of algaecide.

[AFreeBird]

B4L8r

[muffaletaman]

Well, growing algae is not much different than farming catfish or crawfish. Water plus sunlight and food. The sun and nature do all the heavy lifting. We do have the up-front infrastructure costs, but if implemented on a cookie-cutter massive scale, these costs plummet, and being what should be long-lived assets, payback will be much less than service life.

This is an element of transitioning from purely fossil to fossil and reasonable renewable. We have plenty of oil - gas - for at least a century (not to mention coal), BUT this is the century to make the transition for these liquid / pipeline fuels...

By 2100 or so, we ought to be in a different, secure, long-term balanced source-sink energy production mode, taking that off the table for the balance of mankind’s tenure - as long as it may be.

Live long and prosper!