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To: DJ MacWoW
If I saw armed men running at my house, I'd be screaming too!!

The problem is the tactical nature of the "raids".

There is no way in a democratic society we should have police forces behaving like this.

The problem seems to have started in LA in the late '70s or early '80s. Gang bangers had crack houses that were essentially fortresses. The cops would show up, bang on the door. The gang bangers wouldn't answer, the cops would kick the door and since it was about two inches or reinforced steel nothing would happen. Bottom line is it would take about 10 minutes for the cops to get into the crack house, by which time all of the evidence would go down the cloaca. No arrests would be made, liberal judges and the press would question the probable cause for the warrant and everybody except the drug dealers would go away unhappy.

The chief Gates of the LAPD said screw it and went out and got himself an armored car and had a 20 foot battering ram mounted on the front. This solved the entry problem but it had some limitations. First, you needed a good run at the door with the ram, second, it was expensive and third, it was a bit conspicuous - drug dealers tended to see it coming.

The ultimate solution seems to have been the "tactical raid". Lots of well armed cops with hand held battering rams would show up at odd hours and just start yelling and smashing in the door. This generally got the cops in the door before the drugs where all flushed and it made for great TV.

The problem is, it relies heavily on the element of surprise which has lead to several tragedies over the years.

The only solution I can see is for law enforcement to change the way they deal with barricade situations.

The courts need to loosen up on probable cause. If police serve a search warrant and no contraband is found, too bad they flushed it. No expensive trial, no expensive incarceration and the perps are out the cost of the drugs.

Agencies should place more emphasis on buy/bust operations and less on forced entry.

Agencies need to remove the emphasis on the big, photogenic, drug bust. If you catch a dealer with a marketable quantity of drugs it should not make any difference if it's ten grams or 200 kilos. Courts should treat them the same and put the perps away for a long time.

Eliminate "no knock" warrants in cases where someone's life is not suspected to be in immediate danger. Implement a 60 second rule, allowing the home owner a full minute to secure their pets and get to the door before they break it down. If the perps flush the drugs, good, let them. It cuts into their margins.

One word about dogs; I love dogs and I agree that what happened in this case was tragic and unnecessary. But if I were a cop and some drug dealer's pit bull was coming at me that sucker would be real dead real fast.

56 posted on 08/09/2008 8:21:20 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
I understand all that. BUT, this was not a crack house. These uber cops never talked to local law enforcemnet. That's right, it was county that sent Swat and never informed the local police . THAT could have ended up a mess all it's own.

Secondly, these yahoos never checked whose house they were raiding. They delivered that package and waited for it to be taken inside. The mayor came back from walking his Labs, not pit bulls, and took the package inside never knowing what it was. The original article stated that the 4 yr old Lab was running AWAY from them when it was shot. They handcuffed Granny and laid her down next to the 7 yr old dead Lab.

They were alerted to the package by Arizona and it never occured to them that this was a setup situation where someone snatches the package off the porch? Freepers know that's a ploy, they didn't?!

There was EVERYTHING wrong with this raid by overzealous yahoo Leos.

58 posted on 08/09/2008 8:47:34 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW ("Make yourself sheep, and the wolves will eat you" Benjamin Franklin)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
One word about dogs; I love dogs and I agree that what happened in this case was tragic and unnecessary. But if I were a cop and some drug dealer's pit bull was coming at me that sucker would be real dead real fast.

Thanks for sharing, but that is completely off the point and irrelevant.

60 posted on 08/09/2008 9:23:31 AM PDT by Fundamentally Fair (If given a choice between a POW and a POS, I'll take the POW.)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Don't forget the Las Vegas Narcotic Unit in the 1980s, which refined the SWAT/no-knock concept, and also funded itself through drug/cash/property seizures.

There was a short-lived TV show in 1990 called The Nasty Boys that glamorized these kinds of tactics to the popular viewing audience. Seems like after that show came out, every police force in the country had to have its own "Nasty Boys."

63 posted on 08/09/2008 10:42:07 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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