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4 gunmen bust doors, yell ‘FBI,’ loot home (Why No-Knock Warrants need to be banned)
Arkansas Democrat Gazette ^ | 08 AUG 08 | JACOB QUINN SANDERS

Posted on 08/08/2008 9:20:58 AM PDT by DCBryan1

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To: thefactor
Good morning!

Glad to see you posting again. Are you still doing this on a city owned computer? Or are you really just a TROLL.

I suspect Liz already has your number and is planning to use you as an example in one of her over the top essays.

In the meantime, you keep right on doing what you do. We all enjoy reading your posts.

Semper Fi
An Old Man,p>

41 posted on 08/08/2008 10:08:13 AM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: thefactor

Except that this is just another story in a long line of stories that truly shed some not-so good light on the idea of no-nock warrants.

As has been posted, these sorts of raids should be EXTREMELY rare - and under EXTREME circumstances. Law enforcement has chosen to use such raids more and more often, and far too often for relatively small crimes or investigations, and often with tragic or painful results (and even on the WRONG HOME).

How does this relate to the story at hand? Some people might hear a door getting kicked in and react by grabbing their trusty firearm and start blasting -but MIGHT think twice if they hear something indicating a police/FBI/ATF raid.


42 posted on 08/08/2008 10:11:30 AM PDT by TheBattman (Vote your conscience, or don't complain about RINOs!)
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To: Hatteras
Help me understand your argument here. We need to ban no-knock raids because the criminals in this case shouted “FBI!” when they kicked in the victim’s door?

No, we need to ban no-knock raids because the criminals CAN shout "FBI". Even if you don't care about citizen's rights or lives, think about the officers' lives a ban may save. The fact that a homeowner can't possibly know if a person shouting "FBI" is actually FBI or acting within the law if he is remains a danger to the officers on the raid. Besides, it's not like the police are really good at this sort of thing.

43 posted on 08/08/2008 10:12:22 AM PDT by magslinger (A politician who thinks he is above the law is actually beneath contempt.)
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To: onlylewis

If no knock warrants are banned, anyone busting down the door is a black hat and well within the ROE. Of course, IMHO, that’s true, anyway.


44 posted on 08/08/2008 10:16:34 AM PDT by magslinger (A politician who thinks he is above the law is actually beneath contempt.)
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To: Jagdgewehr
Understood, but the posting seemed to assume that banning the warrants would stop the criminals. Or maybe I need to read it again, anyway like I said no argument. If someone comes thru my door without permission I will be ready.
45 posted on 08/08/2008 10:18:52 AM PDT by onlylewis (libs want a two class system, one rich one poor)
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To: SoldierDad
People with an agenda will take isolated incidents where LE makes a mistake ...

Here's hoping you and your family don't become collateral damage some early morning. lol

46 posted on 08/08/2008 10:20:25 AM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin '36 ... Olympics for murdering regimes. ... Beijing '08)
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To: Gilbo_3
Define successful...

1) Correct address.

2) No dogs were injured.

47 posted on 08/08/2008 10:20:46 AM PDT by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops by accusing them of war crimes.)
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To: onlylewis

It would stop it for one reason. Anyone breaking into a home shouting police when no knock warrants were not allowed, as the constitution forbids them, then no one would be fooled and would shoot a lot sooner. The victims wouldn’t wait until it was to late and criminals would know that. If you can’t see that, then I feel sorry for you.


48 posted on 08/08/2008 10:22:35 AM PDT by calex59
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To: maine-iac7
The worst part, of course, is the attitude of the Sheriff's dept in the Mayor incident:

"They've said they've done nothing wrong," (Mayor)Calvo said. "I didn't sign up for this fight, but I think what we have to do now is make changes to how Prince George's County police and Prince George's County sheriff's department operate."

Calvo said authorities entered his home without knocking and refused to show him a warrant when he requested one...

When you can't tell the difference between the cops and the bad guys, and the so-called 'good guys' don't recognize a screwed up raid, it's time to end the practice.

49 posted on 08/08/2008 10:28:32 AM PDT by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops by accusing them of war crimes.)
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To: calex59

Oh wait! Oh wait! Oh wait! I get it now. You’re saying if the cops stopped acting like the criminals, we would be able to more easily tell the difference between the two?

(What did I win?) :-)


50 posted on 08/08/2008 10:37:01 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Vigilantism will arise where the justice system is viewed as overly lenient and/or ineffective.)
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To: thefactor
...shows you simply have an agenda...

Yup, I've got an agenda. There's no excuse for the macho pig BS of a no-knock raid. Ninja suits, masked faces, screaming obscenities, shooting dogs, REGULARLY busting into the wrong house - this kind of stuff belongs in a police state, not the United States.

My agenda is that it will stop, and police officers will act like police officers again. I respect police officers and I hate macho pigs.

51 posted on 08/08/2008 10:39:37 AM PDT by jimt
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To: calex59
Now you are getting testy with me. I told you at the end of my post that I had no argument just a thought. I do understand the opportunity for the homeowner to react without having to worry if it is truly the police. And I do agree. So please do not feel sorry for me.
Just thought it needed a little discussion.
52 posted on 08/08/2008 10:39:46 AM PDT by onlylewis (libs want a two class system, one rich one poor)
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To: thefactor

So you’re for an ever-expanding police state, where no-knock warrants for a late payment on a refridgerator become the norm?

Your papers, prole


53 posted on 08/08/2008 10:40:34 AM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
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To: Wiggins

Highly unlikely I won’t have a chance to do anything.

And... I kind of expect it to be a “blaze of glory” lol


54 posted on 08/08/2008 10:40:34 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for latest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: thefactor

Handcuff? Hardly. Police have plenty of other avenues to get their work done w/o killing the family dog and ruining front doors. I say that if no knocks continue in use then the police shouldnt whine when they get shot doing it. There are no means for the home owner to ID the intruder. As such anyone coming thru the front door in the middle of the night of fair game. The safety of the home owner trumps that of the police.


55 posted on 08/08/2008 10:41:05 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: wilco200
No. We should ban no-knock raids because they are unconstitutional and because there have been numerous examples of “real” police raiding innocent homeowners, destroying their property, and even killing their dogs...

And even killing the homeowners, as well. All with complete impunity...

the infowarrior

56 posted on 08/08/2008 10:42:12 AM PDT by infowarrior
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To: nonsporting

That’s my point pretty much. There’s not a reason in the world the FBI or any other agency is going to be kicking my door in. Nothing. Nada.

My door gets kicked in, I’m going to be shooting.


57 posted on 08/08/2008 10:42:33 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for latest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: Wiggins

I’m thinking that when I build a house it’s going to be fortified to the point that nobody will be knocking the door down without the aid of a D10 Cat.


58 posted on 08/08/2008 10:44:56 AM PDT by lesser_satan (Cthulu '08! Why vote for the lesser evil?)
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To: Gilbo_3
Define successful...

Dog shot, beers all around afterwards............

59 posted on 08/08/2008 10:46:06 AM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: jimt

Big BUMP.


60 posted on 08/08/2008 10:51:59 AM PDT by EEDUDE
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