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Why Oil Will Keep Falling
YooHoo! Finance ^ | Monday, August 4, 2008, 12:00AM | Ben Stein

Posted on 08/05/2008 8:40:13 AM PDT by rightinthemiddle

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To: mysterio

In terms of the actual cost of extraction and production, oil is one of the cheapest commodities available to mankind. I don’t know where this notion of “ridiculous prices” comes from.


41 posted on 08/05/2008 9:38:07 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Cold Heat
Oil prices will not hold long at the lower levels, and the resistance at 120 dollars per BBL appears to be holding up

Look again.

42 posted on 08/05/2008 9:40:18 AM PDT by B Knotts (Calvin Coolidge Republican)
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To: Alberta's Child
Perhaps you should purchase a fill-up and report back. Or buy a good that has been transported and compare this years price to the 2002 price.

$120 a barrel is ridiculously high.
43 posted on 08/05/2008 9:40:41 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Cold Heat

The ECB has been keeping their rates too high for years now. However, many businesses and politicians would have supported coordinated intervention in the currency market to counter them. The one thing lacking was leadership from the American president to get it done. In fact W’s message for years now was that he would let the dollar fall without intervention.


44 posted on 08/05/2008 9:47:30 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: rightinthemiddle

“Wait. I take that back. There has been one huge new factor. A staggering rise in purchases by speculators of contracts for future delivery of oil. This has been a new and gigantic effect in the market. This same effect gave us a bubble in high tech. It gave us a bubble in gold and silver about thirty years ago.”

I agree with Ben. There is an old explanation for a rapid rise a particular stock, or stock in an industry, or a rise in the entire stock market: Too many dollars chasing too few shares. And the stock or industry segment, or the entire market becomes: “overvalued”.

That has happened when some stock or segment becomes the next big thing, or when large amounts of foreign money, or money from lower yielding investments begins to flow into the stock market in large amounts.

No reason we can’t have too many dollars chasing too few crude oil futures contracts. So, the futures market can raise the price of crude independent of the actual supply and demand for crude.

This could happen and be entirely legal, or, as discussed in a thread a few weeks back, schemes to allow some trading entities to purchase more contracts that intended can allow big money buyers a bigger stake in the futures market than regulators intended.


45 posted on 08/05/2008 9:49:35 AM PDT by Will88
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To: rightinthemiddle

It only went as high as it did due to a huge short position by SemGroup. It was the 2nd largest commodity loss in history ($3.2B), but you haven’t seen any news of it in the MSM. See http://www.investmentrarities.com/weeklycommentary.html


46 posted on 08/05/2008 9:51:50 AM PDT by Rockitz (NObama 2008- Strange we ain't believin')
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To: mysterio
I didn't say oil was cheaper today than it was 6 years ago . . . I said it was one of the cheapest commodities you can buy.

If you think $120 a barrel is ridiculously high, then place the blame squarely where it belongs: On the weakness of the U.S. dollar against almost every other currency in the world.

47 posted on 08/05/2008 9:56:37 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Rockitz
It only went as high as it did due to a huge short position
by SemGroup. It was the 2nd largest commodity loss in history ($3.2B),
but you haven’t seen any news of it in the MSM.


You are at least 99% correct.

The collapse of SEM Group has merited at least 2 prominent stories
in The Wall Street Journal during the past couple of weeks.
One article concerned the loss of the generous charitable donations
that Tulsa, OK would miss given the exit of the chairman of
the company (Kivisto?, sp?).

But by-and-large you are absolutely correct...it's been a non-story
in the MSM.
Effectively it is as if there has been a "press embargo"
on the story.
Or the MSM is just too retarded to realize it's a big story!!!
48 posted on 08/05/2008 10:00:01 AM PDT by VOA
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To: rightinthemiddle

Ben is not much of an economist. I have read some of his recent economic writings, including this one, and they are not very well thought out and many of them are just plain wrong and leftist (calling for higher taxes and wealth redistribution in some of them).


49 posted on 08/05/2008 10:01:06 AM PDT by HwyChile
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To: Alberta's Child

That is certainly a factor as well.


50 posted on 08/05/2008 10:01:20 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

It will also remain high because China and India have been increasing their demand like crazy (and China subsidizes it for its people, which doesn’t help matters). It cracks me up to hear people talk about it dropping back to $2 a gallon.


51 posted on 08/05/2008 10:02:35 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: Fighter@heart

OMG it’s an Hour long!!


52 posted on 08/05/2008 10:08:14 AM PDT by CPT Clay (Drill ANWR, Personal Accounts NOW ,)
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To: mysterio
Give oil a competitor and watch the price sink back down to a realistic level.

I'm afraid that I have no earthly idea of the point you are trying to make with the use of the term "competitor".

If you are making a reference to large multinationals like Exxon, It might be of interest to you that big oil companies have zero influence on the prices set by the crude oil markets. They are at the mercy of the trading pits, just as the end use customer is.

In fact, Exxon is about the only major producer left who even has the slightest interests in gasoline distribution as in stations, and they are currently selling all those assets in order to avoid any connection with gas prices. The rest have already done so, if you have not yet noticed.

The price of crude is set in the trading pits, located in the commodity exchanges in Chicago and NY. The trading is in the future price of oil based on supplies, weather, political unrest and most importantly the demand for the product. The Oil that you always hear about being priced per barrel is sweet crude. The price of the other grades is lower, but rarely is it news. Refiners pay according to contractual prices that are set based on the spot market prices, but they rarely pay the high price as advertised.

Currently, refiners are only now beginning to get their profit margins back in line with their costs and have been actually losing money during the period of time when gas was over four bucks per gallon.Their crack spread, or per barrel profits actually went negative because they took the loss and could not pass on the actual costs. people just would not pay it.

The high ridiculous profits are made by the owners and producers, who include some multinationals like Exxon, but are mostly governments who control the land and resources. These governments are the ones raking it in, but they do not have any control over the price beyond the tariffs and taxes they levy on the producer who pulls the oil out. This is all passed on.

A government entity like Iran, Mexico, Venezuela, Canada, Russia and others or the U.S. can affect the price by announcing a restriction to the supply, which will affect the entire supply chain. The only government entity restricting supplies to this degree currently is none other than the United States.

So....it then follows that if you want to point a finger at the guilty, point it squarely at Washington DC and by extension, point it at yourself.

53 posted on 08/05/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by Cold Heat (NO! (you can infer any meaning you choose))
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To: All

I have been looking for months for a good article/analysis
to convince me that oil prices are going down.
I like Ben Stein alot!
But this article is not it!


54 posted on 08/05/2008 11:00:30 AM PDT by Beeline
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To: B Knotts
Well, if 119.82 is a major breakthrough of support, I'll eat my hat....LOL....

For the next ten days, there is no major oil mover expected, so I expect some testing of the lower prices, but there is far to much head wind to allow a return to where this all began at the 70 dollar price point. Other than Brazil, who's supplies will not come on line for a decade, the US is the only country with known reserves that could change the supply dynamics, and for now, I only see a faint hope of doing so.

55 posted on 08/05/2008 11:05:42 AM PDT by Cold Heat (NO! (you can infer any meaning you choose))
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To: Cold Heat

The question is, as Ben Stein pointed out, there is any meaningful difference in supply and demand between when oil was $70 and now.


56 posted on 08/05/2008 11:09:39 AM PDT by B Knotts (Calvin Coolidge Republican)
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To: Cold Heat
I'm afraid that I have no earthly idea of the point you are trying to make with the use of the term "competitor".

I mean that right now, when I pull up to the fueling station, I have a choice between oil based fuel and oil based fuel. If I pulled up to the fuel station and had a choice between oil based fuel, biofuel, hydrogen, and an electrical outlet, then oil would no longer be a monopoly.
57 posted on 08/05/2008 11:24:15 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

B I N G O !


58 posted on 08/05/2008 11:40:19 AM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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To: norraad

I think this is the best one. A liberal co-worker of mine said the reason oil prices are coming down is because Cheney had a talk with his oil buddies that they made enough on the upside and now it is time to make a killing on the down side.


59 posted on 08/05/2008 2:19:44 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (McCain/Palin 2008)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
..b i n g o, another cupi doll for you and yours!

I wish more folks would get hip and complain about the correct things.

Also, Ben is in on the scam, he is and always was a subtle mouthpiece for the King and his new clothes.

60 posted on 08/05/2008 4:37:00 PM PDT by norraad ("What light!">Blues Brothers)
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