Some saw dark side of accused anthrax killer Bruce Ivins

AP ^ | August 1, 2008

[Shermy]

FREDERICK, Md. - Bruce E. Ivins was a juggler, a gardener, a church musician, a Red Cross volunteer

[Shermy]

misleading headline, most have good things to say.

So far on the bad side,

1. Brother who has not seen him since 1985

2. Handwritten notes on a document by social worker saying Ivins was a threat, not to people in general, but people in her line of work.

Everything else says he was o.k. and harassed by the FBI.

Reminiscent of Ken Berry’s breakdown.

[Brian S. Fitzgerald]

Is the FBI going to prove their case, or just put it in the “unsolved” file?

[drzz]

Stephen Hatfill, Fort Detrick microbiologist formerly suspected by FBI :

“FBI IS WRONG TO SEARCH AT FORT DETRICK. THE ANTHRAX LETTERS ARE LINKED WITH SADDAM HUSSEINS’S REGIME AND I CAN PROVE IT”

(Hatfill to ABC News, October 2001)

http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/Hatfill116-2.pdf

[Shermy]

"Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital after having ingested a massive dose of prescription Tylenol mixed with codeine, said a friend and colleague who declined to be identified out of concern, he said, that he would be harassed by the FBI.

http://www.kansascity.com/811/story/729504.html

[Technogeeb]

and a suspected multiple murderer, according to federal authorities

And they would certainly know something about multiple murders. I think the biggest argument against the conspiracy theorists who claim the government was involved is that the FBI tends to commit their mass murders on national television.

[Shermy]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0801081anthrax2.html

Here’s all the proof they need. /sarc

Handwritten notes, partly incoherent, “graduate days”

On page one there are allegations of threats around July 9.

Nothing about going back to “graduate days.”

Oh, but the first story from the LA Times mentions his brother didn’t like him. What they failed to say, but this story digs out, the brother hadn’t talked to him since 1985.

So, the first FBI planted story leaves out a crucial, disabling fact. Very thin gruel here.

[Cicero]

I think that if the FBI threw any ordinary person out of his job, followed him everywhere, sat in cars outside his home, harrassed him, and then the state sent a “social worker” to his home interview him, it would be understandable if he got a little annoyed.

“Hello, you dangerous lunatic, I’m from the government and I’m here to help you. What’s that? You don’t want help, you just want to be left alone? I’m filing a report on you, buddy!”

[Shermy]

Years back, I think it was the “FBI car runs over the foot of Hatfill” story, one or more here thought the FBI was trying to crack Hatfill, even get him to kill himself. I think that could be true now.

But Hatfill is a tougher character than Ivins.

So far the spin,

1. Brother doesn’t like him, though the first and primarily cited article/leak omits they haven’t talked in 28 years,

2. Hand written notes with poor grammar talking about threats in July this year, and some vague “graduate” statement. So far, no interview with accuser.

[jpl]

Really, who among us doesn't have a dark side?

Fortunately, most of us are able to control our darkest impulses. But you can make damn near almost anyone look bad if you dig hard enough and talk to people who don't like that person for whatever reason.

[shalom aleichem]

I agree. The government can break anyone. It is very sad that they now come running out to claim they were ready to file criminal charges. How long has it been? Reminds me of the witch hunt after Rush with his alleged drug prescription abuse and disloyal house keeper. He had too much firepower and top lawyers for them. They like to mess with the little guys.

[Rocketwolf68]

Well, this is convenient for the FBI. They can now wrap up their case with a TWA flight 800 type press conference showing how he weaponized anthrax in his basement with a Popeil’s pocket fisherman and a vacuum foodsaver...

[BunnySlippers]

Uh, oh, AP ...

[piasa]

Comes out on a Friday; anonymous sources; guy's dead and can't sue anyone for defamation of character; happens close to the election; a story interesting enough to catch the eye of anyone interested in drawing attention from the Congressional uproar of Dems turning their backs on the oil problem. It also happens to be another useful tidbit to try to de-link Iraq and alQaeda [or terrorism from muslims] in voters' minds, which might be helpful to Obama's limping campaign.

Why would someone want the story out bad enough to leak it before the DOJ says anything and before there is anything confirmable about the case?

It could also be some lawyers' effort to aid a suspect by casting suspicion on a third party. Is there anyone else we know going on trial in the near future? Benevolence Int'l folks or some such?

[marktwain]

It looks as if the FBI has decided that it *absolutely* must show that no Muslims were involved in the anthrax attacks.

[Shermy]

It was clear they obsessed on the domestic theory from the beginning. Maybe they were right. But if only recent testing proved Ft Detrick, why the focus before that?

[the invisib1e hand]

hulloo! I seem to recall other “suicides” by anthrax scientists some time back...weren’t there?

[BlackVeil]

I seem to recall other “suicides” by anthrax scientists some time back...

There is the case of Frank Olsen, also an anthrax scientist, also at Fort Derick, who was alleged to have committed suicide in the 1950s. His family fought for years to have the truth known and then finally, and very surprisingly, during the Ford Presidency, it was officially admitted that he had been killed by the intelligence agencies. The US govt paid compensation and apologised.

But there are many unanswered questions about the Olsen case. His son made public statements, after the anthrax attacks, saying he was very worried about what might really be going on at Fr Derrick.

[BlackVeil]

But you can make damn near almost anyone look bad if you dig hard enough and talk to people who don't like that person for whatever reason.

Exactly so. And also, you can have the most casual acquaintance making suspicious remarks about you if the conversation is structured like this:

- You know your mild-mannered neighbour - the one who juggles for a passtime - it is now revealed he is a multiple murderer. Now what weird things did you ever notice about him?

[pepsionice]

I think after they identified the particular type of anthrax strain involved...it came back to the front door of the US facility. Unless someone can show one of these guys giving the sample to the Muslim guys (which hasn’t been proved in any forum yet)...then we are stuck with a scenario which none of us like. It was our own people who did this to us.

I don’t yet agree on the entire scenario presented...and wait still for more details on Bruce Ivins. After the Hatfield episode...I am slow to believe in any quick solution. But the one fact that puzzles me is that that the brother hasn’t talked to this guy in years. I’ve seen cases like this...but it typically involved a total nutcase....which makes me wonder just how competent that Ivins was, and who vouched for his security clearance over the past decade. If he did represent a threat to co-workers...this is a insignificant indicator of a guy you simply cannot trust in such an environment.

Several years ago, at a US military contingency site...a Navy O-4 arrived and over a period of two months....was deemed a total nutcase. None of the officers would do anything about the guy. Finally, a senior AF enlisted guy started documenting the daily tirades and examples of this officer. After two weeks of collection...he handed it over to the local mental health clinic. They arrived the next day with two big guys and escorted the O-4 to a aircraft and he was flown to a stateside facility.

Most of us will just keep accepting deranged folks working with us, and never demanding action. At some point...we may all be fooling ourselves over our safety.