Posted on 08/01/2008 7:45:45 AM PDT by tobyhill
“Use motor oil as a two stroke premix?”
In place of those fancy little bottles of two-stroke oil. Regular motor oil will work fine as long as you keep to the correct ratio with the gas. And it’s less likely to gum up your carburetor when mixed with an ethanol blend.
Stabil makes a special marine grade additive just for ethanol crap gas.
Ethanol is much better than methanol and has more BTU's per unit. If they would just arrest the corn lobby and get us on sugar based ethanol, we could make a dent in fuel cost and supply until we perfect cellulosic manufacture. We won't even drop the import tax from Brazil. They have it to export at around $1.50 a gallon. ( with the drop in the dollar, that may need to be adjusted). What about importing sugar from the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Africa, et al. Instead of sending weapons and foreign aid to these places, why not import some of their products and give them some jobs? We could even use rice from Texas and LA, but we don't. How about potato's from Idaho, but we don't. Sorghum, sugar beets, etc, the list is almost endless, but we use corn and corn only because of a handful of congress critters from the mid west we ONLY use corn. There is a constituency that wants ethanol to fail, and one that wants ethanol to succeed. Brazil has already shown that it will work, but we will still need oil for decades. I just wanted to say something here to cut out the political spin. To claim ethanol destroys engines is just a lie. The first Fords were designed to run on ethanol.
I've put a couple of responses on how ethanol engines could save the world, but you might as well put your flame suit on when you do that. I just know that if you raised the compression ratio( maybe a turbo also), advanced the timing, designed your cam accordingly, used an electronic fuel management system, you could design a 4 banger with 400hp that gets decent mpg's at regular speeds on ethanol. How about a Zetec 2.0 liter that runs a full size truck and pulls boats and such, that can get 27 plus mpg when empty and not stomping it from stop sign to stop sign. If you need the 400hp you have it, but 90% of the time 100hp or less is enough. You can do that with ethanol( not E85). Designing your engine to run only ethanol is the key. A duel fuel setup is designed to run the worst fuel. Once you design the engine for only ethanol, you can't go back. The reason we have E85 is to poison it so you won't drink it without the tax. (Cold starting is easier also) If you had 13:1 pistons, it will start anyway. Also did I mention an engine can run on 160 proof? That's 20% water. 190 is better, but 160 can work. You can't do that with E85 and the main cost of making ethanol is getting that last 5% of water out to make it 200 proof. E85 allows no water in the mix.
We subsidize sugar to prop UP the price. We could make ethanol from sugar sources and make plenty at a cheaper price with a smaller impact on food prices than corn. We would have more sources for sugar based ethanol than just the middle east oil. South America, Central America, Africa and the Caribbean would keep us stocked pretty well with more competition than we have now.
With the tech we have now, wind and solar will never be more than 5-10% until they get more efficient. Nat gas can be made into liquid fuel and is plentiful, but tends to follow the oil price. CNG is a traveling bomb IMHO and there is no filling stations. I just fear, at 57, I may have been witness to the best years for the US. We have dorks that don't seem to know anything running the country now. Truth is truth and lies are lies and we can't even agree what is true anymore. If we get Obama, we will get nada, nothing, just inflated tire pressure for relief at the pump. With McCain, we may get another 2-5 years before we collapse as a country. The socialist mind controllers won't even sell me a burger and fries in California anymore. Britney Spears seems to be running the country. At least Pelosi will save the planet. Everybody get your moped.
Sorry, I'm beginning to rant. I'll go make a toddy with my rum.
Where do you get "real gas"? I though Bush required all gas to be E10? MTBE is banned. I think all gas is at least 10% ethanol now.
Old Prof - I don't think it's just sediment at bottom of float bowl. It really does powder alloy parts and the local Honda shop is getting rich on mower carbueretor rebuilds. He's the one who tipped me to running it dry and that seems to work.
Heart - thanks, I'll give it a try.
I believe the marine product is just a double dose (more concentrated). Correct me if wrong.
It does clean the gunk off things, a dirty fuel system could have ethanol clean all the gunk off the inside and plug things up.
“I would use the motor oil in a pinch, but the mix is just easier and seems to burn cleaner.”
It is easier, however you don’t know what extra junk is in it and how it will react to ethanol. With garden variety motor oil, you don’t have to worry about the additives and only have to be concerned with the rubber parts.
What ever the case, if you leave an ethanol in the tank in the off season, it’s going to need carb work in the spring...
Come on guys, pre-mix and motor oil are two very different petroleum products designed to very different objectives.
I’m not denying that motor oil won’t get you the last five miles to Cabo San Lucas. But it would be foolish to choose it ahead of time.
Gene, you have things backwards about which to use with respect to ethanol. The major premix manufacturers have tested and verified their product with E-10 is safe. This happened years ago. Since then millions of hours have been accumulated. Look on a big forum like Thumpertalk for ethanol/premix problems in a place like Colorado. You won’t find any. Or you might find one or two who claim they have an ethanol-related problem when everyone else knows it was another factor. We all know you shouldn’t let the stuff sit in carb bowls.
The “extra junk” you talk about is what is needed in a modern high performance motor to prevent seizures and bearing failures and maintain film strength.
It is not unusual for a racing two cycle motor to seize just changing from say a 40:1 ratio to 60:1, or castor to petroleum, or synthetic to non-synthetic. Everything has to be JUST RIGHT in a high-performance two cycle, including jetting changes required by a premix change.
One even has to be careful to not use a liquid-cooled oriented product in an air cooled engine (the latter, with higher temperatures, requires a different premix formulation). Lots of people get in trouble putting, for example, outboard motor oil in an air cooled motor.
Look up “TC-W3TM, NMMA, [API] TC, JASO FC, or ISO-L-EGO”. You will see a strong requirement for ashless or low ash content. This isn’t the case with motor oil. Motor oil would give you severe deposits and fouling long before you made it to Cabo, if you didn’t have a seizure first.
Chuckles, what do you think of the reports of overt corrosion in aluminum alloy float bowls? I have seen photos of this and the green stuff. They aren’t making it up, but I have had hard time believing that a low percentage of ethanol is doing that. A higher percentage, yes. What do you think? Are they putting in another additive that’s doing it?
Amen pour out the excess and run them dry.
As you get older, just pulling the string becomes the chore if the engine is fouled and hard to start.
I’m happy that my old ‘63 Elgin 45 was designed to run on 87 octane. A year or two later they required premium (increased compression and timing advance?).
Although I do have some fuel left over in the tank each spring, it has plenty of stabilizer in it and I mix it with new fuel.
Since ethanol blend fuel might be expected to lose more octane than straight gasoline, I might start buying premium for any storage need. I know the volatile stuff in the blend fuels disappears right off the bat.
I do worry somewhat about the diaphragms in those old Walbro carbs.
Stabil marine has 2 times the inhibitor and 4 times the cleaner of regular stabil.
I have always used PRI-G (gasoline) or PRI-D (diesel) and just read that The PRI-G has worked to prevent the phase separation in ethanol crap gasoline. I think I’ll stick with my PIR-G.
Very interesting. Do you have a link about the phase separation being inhibited? Thanks.
BTTT
I've been running E15 gasohol in our cars, 4-cycle mower, and 2-cycle snowblower for YEARS without any problems.
This article is BS.
www.priproducts.com/tests.htm
There’s one gas station in town that has regular gas. There is a deadline for all gas stations to switch to part ethanol and some still have “normal” gas right now. If there is ethanol in the gas they sell, it has to be clearly posted at the pump.
Do a search for “ethanol, small engines.” Ethanol is not good for small engines. People are starting to wake up due to the sudden death of their yard/garden equipment and the high cost of repair.
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