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To: count-your-change
Would you mind stating specifically where Duesberg et al were in error re: Acer/Bergalis?
34 posted on 08/02/2008 9:02:05 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Duesberg’s position was/is that while the HIV might be present in an idividual with AIDS it didn’t cause the syndrome.
When Bergalis was diagnosed with AIDS the quesstion arose as to how. The dentist also had AIDS. DNA tests on the virus strain present in the dentist showed it was closely related to the strain Bergalis had. Other patients of the dentist that had AIDS showed no such close relatedness in the virus they carried.
Thus it was established the HIV Bergalis carried came from the dentist, how was never established. The dentist died as did Bergalis from AIDS. In some fashion Bergalis was infected with the HIV the dentist carried. Additionally Bergalis was not in any risk group.
Another infected dentist had several patients that became infected but using similar DNA tests as with Acer it was determined that the HIV in this dentist was different from the HIV in his patients so in this case there was no connection.
One of many sources that discuss the Bergalis case is found in the Annals of Internal Medicine 1 December 1994 | Volume 121 Issue 11 | Pages 886-888.


36 posted on 08/02/2008 9:36:43 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Another of Duesberg’s assertions is that many AIDS suffers were drug users and that their drug use and the administration of AZT actually produced the AIDS symptoms.
Here is a comment Duesberg made in an interview.
“The hypothesis(HIV causes AIDS) that cost us so much money did not save us one single life and the fact is, it caused the death of many people. THROUGH THE ADMINISTRATION OF AZT; THROUGH WIDESPREAD POISONOUS DRUGS THAT HAVE BEEN FREELY DISTRIBUTED IN THE WESTERN WORLD FOR LONG-TERM USE.”
The complete interview can be found at “Interview with Professor Dr. Peter Duesberg (University of California/Berkeley) at the Alt. AIDS Congress in Amsterdam 1993.www.whatisaids.com/ninainterviewduesberg.html
http://www.aliveandwell.org";
Further in the same interview Duesberg made this recommendation if one was taking AZT or other anti-HIV drugs.”
“DUESBERG: If someone AIDS? Well, that is a difficult question! OK, first of all one should stop taking these drugs! That's the first thing to do. And by all means not take these highly contaminated “AIDS treatment drugs” because people tested positive for HIV should no longer deteriorate as victims. It depends on how you look at it, you can get better or not. It's like when someone has smoked for 20 years. Either it is too late or it is not too late. If someone has been drinking excessively for 20 years, this can cause liver disease- by stoppping the drinking you can sometimes recover. Sometimes not. It just depends on the state of your health. There is one point where there is no turning back, just as in life, it goes slowly uphill. No matter what you do.”
Then the question is whether Duesberg is correct that AZT produce the sympoms associated with AIDS? Read on.
“1: N Engl J Med. 1987 Jul 23;317(4):185-91.Links
The efficacy of azidothymidine (AZT) in the treatment of patients with AIDS and AIDS-related complex. A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
Fischl MA, Richman DD, Grieco MH, Gottlieb MS, Volberding PA, Laskin OL, Leedom JM, Groopman JE, Mildvan D, Schooley RT, et al.
We conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of the efficacy of oral azidothymidine (AZT) in 282 patients with the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) manifested by Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia alone, or with advanced AIDS-related complex. The subjects were stratified according to numbers of T cells with CD4 surface markers and were randomly assigned to receive either 250 mg of AZT or placebo by mouth every four hours for a total of 24 weeks. One hundred forty-five subjects received AZT, and 137 received placebo. When the study was terminated, 27 subjects had completed 24 weeks of the study, 152 had completed 16 weeks, and the remainder had completed at least 8 weeks. Nineteen placebo recipients and 1 AZT recipient died during the study (P less than 0.001). Opportunistic infections developed in 45 subjects receiving placebo, as compared with 24 receiving AZT. The base-line Karnofsky performance score and weight increased significantly among AZT recipients (P less than 0.001). A statistically significant increase in the number of CD4 cells was noted in subjects receiving AZT (P less than 0.001). After 12 weeks, the number of CD4 cells declined to pretreatment values among AZT recipients with AIDS but not amonG AZT recipients with AIDS-related complex. Skin-test anergy was partially reversed in 29 percent of subjects receiving AZT, as compared with 9 percent of those receiving placebo (P less than 0.001). These data demonstrate that AZT administration can decrease mortality and the frequency of opportunistic infections in a selected group of subjects with AIDS or AIDS-related complex, at least over the 8 to 24 weeks of observation in this study.
PMID: 3299089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]”
I think I can say that no one who claims HIV is just a harmless virus will take an injection of the virus.
37 posted on 08/02/2008 10:44:22 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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