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To: chrisser
You're right and in an ideal world that would be exactly the way it is. However, like everything else, nothing is exactly perfect because those ships are made by and manned by human beings.

There is not an entire ship in any navy anywhere in the world where absolutely everything is in its place, as per regulations, all the time. And, it's also a fact of life that the book is often wrong, out of date, or just plain stupid in places.

Captains have godlike authority to change things, XO has the captain's authority to look for things that work, close one eye when something that does work does not quite meet regulations, and otherwise keep the ship doing what it's supposed to do.

But here? Nope. This was a major screw up plain and simple. You can't tell me that the CPO and Division officer who had that oil stored there didn't know it wasn't supposed to be there — and WHY it wasn't supposed to be there.

That means the Division officer was not particularly worried about getting his ass handed to him by his Department head, which means the Department head was not sufficiently motivated by his XO who was not, for whatever reason, doing his job to support his CO.

The Navy runs its ships the way it does based on institutional knowledge and experience that goes all the way back to John Paul Jones, and further back to the Royal Navy if you want to look at it that way. There are good and solid reasons WHY the CO has such authority and there is also good and solid reasons why their nuts are on the line when they screw up.

This incident proves it. Like I said, they get no sympathy from me. Not only did their carelessness take a major chunk of US seapower off the table for several months at the cost of 77 odd million clams, the incident had major international repercussions in that made the George Washington look like a freaking frat house party boat at just the time when the US Government was trying to convince the Japanese that having a nuclear powered carrier homeported in Yokosuka was a good idea.

If I was the CNO, that Captain would spend whatever time he had left in uniform as the officer in charge of a yard tugboat in Adak on an unaccompanied tour.

37 posted on 07/31/2008 6:52:51 AM PDT by Ronin (Is there some rule that says that when an evil man gets sick, we must pretend he was saint?)
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To: Ronin; bioqubit

Thank you for your insight.

I think the worst part, as Ronin mentioned, is that it is a serious blow, whether deserved or not, to US Navy reputation in the world.

For better or worse, the U.S. military exists as a force for deterrence. That deterrence is partly due to the technical and numerical superiority of our weapons systems, but mostly its due to the percieved effectiveness of the men and women operating them and the leadership in place to keep that effectiveness at a high level.

This incident calls that effectiveness into question to some degree, which is unfortunate. Every naval vessel is important, but this is one of the pinnacles of the U.S. Navy. A potential adversary is going to look at this incident and consider - if a carrier is this poorly managed, then maybe we won’t fair so badly against a smaller vessel. That kind of thinking by our enemies is dangerous to us and the world.


52 posted on 07/31/2008 7:22:51 AM PDT by chrisser (The Two Americas: Those that want to be coddled, Those that want to be left the hell alone.)
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To: Ronin
I Imagine the CHENG, DCA, as well as the saftey officer's careers are over also and rightfully so. The DCA and saftey officer should have made certain daily walk through inspections were done of spaces for hazards. How far can a DCA go? Ours cut the cord on the Admirals popcorn machine for not having a saftey inspection sticker. His name invoked fear but he knew his job the same with the MPA.

What I can't figure out is why the oil burned. I'm serious. Evidently when the EPA began forcing the end of R-11 and R-12 the replacement refrigerant must not have used the same oil and also the new refrigerant requireda lot more oil. I worked AC&R on the ship as well as did a 9 month T.A.D. to Fire Department. Refrigerant oil for our units was safe and stowed in our shop. We had maybe 20 gallons of it at the most. Ultimately improper storage caused the fire. If a smoke hadn't started it then it was one waiting to happen.

Looks like maintenance and readiness wise our Navy began declining in late 1989 and is still not headed toward recovery. This is due in part because leadership from the LBJ, and Ford years has not changed as such or rather it's the same morons names who keep popping up. The Navy needs a Hildigo {sp} back as SECNAV. He was the man who began the fixing what Ford and Mr Peanut's people messed up although Hildigo was a late in MR Peanuts term appointment. The only thing Carter did right IMO.

71 posted on 07/31/2008 1:22:02 PM PDT by cva66snipe ($.01 The current difference between the DEM's and GOP as well as their combined worth to this nation)
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