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To: Coyoteman

Evolutionists are too defensive. Most if not all posts by evolutionists require some sort of character defamation against creationists—associate creationism with an emotional response, because the more rational consideration it gets, the more believable it is.

To those who haven’t made up their minds, I would say look at both sides of the argument. Read everyone from Darwin up to the contemporary biologists. And of course Gish and Behe.

I would recommend listening to Perry Marshall and what he has to say about information theory:

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm


113 posted on 07/05/2008 8:16:35 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Liberalism is service to the self disguised as service to others.)
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To: reasonisfaith

Evolutionists get touchy and frustrated because the inherit dishonesty by Creationists. It’s like arguing with 9-11 Truthers. Shoot down one theory they move onto the next and ignore their defeats.


115 posted on 07/05/2008 8:27:06 PM PDT by Bogey78O (Don't call them jihadis. Call them irhabis. Tick them off, don't entertain their delusion.)
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To: reasonisfaith
I would recommend listening to Perry Marshall and what he has to say about information theory:

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm

This is phenomenal! A true must-hear! I work in the IT field and this guy knows his stuff. (So far I'm almost half way through the first audio track.)

The other day I mentioned some similar things in a post here

I also did a little crude math and found that the chances of the first cell springing to life from non-life is statistically impossible.

Thanks!

-Jesse

117 posted on 07/05/2008 9:05:28 PM PDT by mrjesse (Could it be true? Imagine, being forgiven, and having a cause, greater then yourself, to live for!)
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To: reasonisfaith
There are two kinds of evolution: That which I have seen (many call it micro evolution) and that which I have not seen (which I'll call All Speciation by evolution, or ASBE for sort, but most call macro evolution.)

What I do see is a lot of quick-switching between saying "Oh, evolution is well demonstrated" while referring to micro evolution, then switching silently to ASBE - for which I heretofore have not found any good evidence. (Oh, yeah, I've been referred to lists of 93,000 links or all of google itself with no clue as to where to start, but never even one single article which provided clear conclusive evidence for ASBE.) Remember: If I can't see it for myself, I can at best only take it on faith - which isn't science!

When I see those pictures of a handful of skull bits stuck onto fixall - maybe in the correct shape, maybe not - it's usually with the claim that they are good evidence for ASBE, or at least humans from apes. Of course we have no idea of real shape and real scale. If you ask me, they could all well have been caused by micro-evolution as is depicted in the photos below. Do we really have anything that goes beyond demonstrating variation in the caliber of micro-evolution? I haven't found anything.

As far as I can tell, the theory of ASBE doesn't have any great evidences which you could see and say "Oh wow!" but rather is made up on thousands of tiny little clues, each of which by itself would be totally unconvincing, and each of which only has merit because of all the others which support it. Reminds me of the farmer who knew that a single ostrich couldn't produce enough lift to fly so he tied a hundred of them together to see if their combined lift would work!

Furthermore, science dogmatically rejects all non-natural events - not because they are impossible and regardless of the evidence - for the simple reason that they posit a non-natural cause. The problem is that until proven impossible, a non-natural cause is possible - so science dogmatically rules out something that is possible.

Let me put it this way: If God did exist, just as the Bible said, could science still exist? Could man still study the world around him? Of course he could! so why dogmatically rule out the possibility? (Especially when the chances of life arising from non-life is about impossible.)

And no matter how certain somebody else is of a claim, if I cannot see it myself, I can at best accept it by faith. And if I take purely by faith a statement which I myself cannot know -- that's not science, that's faith!

And my observation has been that the majority of people who believe in ASBE (All Species By Evolution) do take it by faith -- for them, it fills the role of a religion.

So what evidence do we have that actually proves more then what well may be just microevolution, like these photos below?

How about these (not to scale):

How about these, to scale:

----

This one wouldn't inline

----

Micro-evolution in short time periods can produce some very drastic changes.

-Jesse

121 posted on 07/05/2008 10:19:19 PM PDT by mrjesse (Could it be true? Imagine, being forgiven, and having a cause, greater then yourself, to live for!)
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