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Horn fires off debate on guns
The Pasadena Citizen ^ | 07/03/2008 | YVETTE OROZCO

Posted on 07/04/2008 7:24:20 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative

Since last October, Joe Horn has kept his voice to a minimum, granting few interviews to the media and erecting a prominent “No Trespassing” sign in the front lawn of the Pasadena home where his notoriety began.

In the two days since a Houston grand jury decided not to indict Horn in the fatal shootings of two men he claimed were posing a threat to his life, the 62-year-old Pasadena retiree has suddenly become more talkative.

By Wednesday, Horn, with his lawyer by his side, had granted excusive interviews to several print, radio and TV news entities, including Diane Sawyer of Good Morning America, expressing some remorse over the loss of lives, but maintaining he acted in self-defense.

While Horn gets his say, the incident reignited another, more familiar topic of conversation, the right of citizens to bear arms for self-protection.


Cindy Deerdoff shows off her target after firing some
rounds at the Pasadena Gun Center and Shooting Range.

At the Pasadena Gun Center and Shooting Range on Shaw Avenue the day after the grand jury decision, Horn was a subject of debate, but not the main subject.

Cindy Deerdoff, a Baytown pharmacist in her mid-50s, was making her first foray into the shooting range on Tuesday afternoon.

The visit to the gun shop had less to do with Joe Horn, she said, than with the experience of witnessing a burglary in progress and a growing sense of anxiety about her own safety.

“A little bit of fear keeps you on your toes,” she said as the sound of gunshots blasted out of a backroom shooting range. “We live in such a violent culture that fosters irresponsible use of guns from the standpoint of people who wish to commit criminal activity. I’m here because I want to be able to use it responsibly.”

For Marshall Boozer, a gunsmith for more than 30 years, the issue is about living in a society where he sees violence encroaching on ordinary lives, and a frustration over what he sees — and hears from his customers — as an inadequate criminal justice system.

A resident taking the law into their own hands, while he would not directly condone it, is something he views as a reaction, not a reactionary response.

“It’s important for criminals to be punished,” he said. “If they’re sentenced to 10 years, they know they won’t serve those 10 years.”

Responsible gun owners, he said, outnumber the isolated incidents.

“It comes down to the fact that people who legally own guns are not committing crimes,” said Boozer.

A clerk, who identified himself only as Mr. Hayes, picked up a writing pen to make his own analogy.

“This pen can be used as a weapon, but the pen itself is not a weapon,” he said, laying the pen down. “Guns do not kill people, people kill people.”

While they were vaguely sympathetic toward Horn, no one at the Pasadena Gun Center and Shooting Range on Tuesday would declare him a hero.

“You never want people to lose their lives, but I don’t know what I would have done in the same situation,” said Randy Deerdoff.

The Horn issue, he maintained, should not be used to generalize and distort a matter gun owners feel is a question of constitutional empowerment.

“There shouldn’t even be an issue,” he said. “If I feel that my life and property is being threatened, I have that right to protect myself.”

While her husband grew up with guns, Cindy Deerdoff is a novice, a resident who simply wants to feel safe but holds on to own reservations.

After a 20-minute session, Deerdoff admitted she had no immediate plans to return to the shooting range.

“I’m afraid of guns,” she said as she rolled up her first sporadically punctured silhouette. “It gave me the chills just walking in there.”



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; joehorn
This is news you won't find in the MSM including the Houston Barnicle. I love the picture that accompanied this article.
1 posted on 07/04/2008 7:24:21 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: Paleo Conservative

Bravo to the lady for at least giving shooting a try.

I hope she goes back.


2 posted on 07/04/2008 7:41:08 AM PDT by Keith Brown (Among the other evils being unarmed brings you, it causes you to be despised Machiavelli.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it. Just a suggestion.

Let Freedom Ring,

Gun Facts v5.0!

Click the pic to go to the Gun Facts v5.0 download page!

3 posted on 07/04/2008 7:44:41 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: Paleo Conservative
While the liberal are still wringing their hands about the Horn case, I have to agree with the Grand Jury decision. Had Horn not acted as he did, those criminals would in all likelihood not have been apprehended and would have continued in their crimes. They had no intention of stopping when apprehended by Horn and I believe he had good reason to fear for his safety. If more citizens were armed, felons would think twice about committing their crimes.

The Horn case reminds me of the attempted bank robbery by the Jesse James gang in Northfield, MN in the late 19th century. Jesse James had robbed banks with impunity in the south, but when his gang ventured into Minnesota his robbery attempt was met by armed citizens who killed one gang member and drove them off. The Younger brothers members of the gang were hunted down and captured by a citizen posse near Madelia,MN and only Jesse James managed to escape. That was the end of the James gang crime spree.

4 posted on 07/04/2008 8:47:34 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Remember, TRUE GUN CONTROL is hitting what you are aiming at.


5 posted on 07/04/2008 9:02:42 AM PDT by xrmusn
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To: Paleo Conservative
I'd be willing to wager that anybody who sees the NO TRESPASSING sign on Joe Horn's front yard doesn't ignore it.
6 posted on 07/04/2008 9:29:17 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: Paleo Conservative

Given the recent SCOTUS work, I’m glad citizens stil provide the ‘front line’ of the justice system.....


7 posted on 07/04/2008 9:40:26 AM PDT by ASOC
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To: Paleo Conservative
Does anyone have a link to more info on the "why" part of the fact that the DA is not pressing charges?

I heard a rumor and want to confirm it.

I believe there is more to this than the Lame Stream Media is telling, as always.

8 posted on 07/04/2008 9:44:25 AM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom; Keith Brown; Joe Brower; The Great RJ; xrmusn; IllumiNaughtyByNature; ASOC
Check out this story. If you click on the links there is a video made by the Pasadena police of Joe Horn explaining what happened to detectives.

Detective: Joe Horn was 'distraught, convincing'

06:12 PM CDT on Thursday, July 3, 2008

By Rucks Russell / 11 News

More KHOU.com Video

PASADENA, Texas -- A police walk-through of a crime scene is standard investigative procedure, but none has garnered as much attention in Houston as the one Pasadena detective Matt Bruegger did with Joe Horn.

In a video released by Pasadena police, Bruegger is on camera interviewing Horn after the Pasadena homeowner gunned down two suspected burglars in his yard in November.

“It’s important that everybody that watches this is able to gather all of the information,” Bruegger said.

It is the same information the detective gathered came from a man he described as “distraught” and someone who was honestly attempting to lay out he facts of what had happened when he shot the two men. The audio of the shooting was recorded as Horn talked to a Pasadena police dispatcher during a 911 call.

“The person that’s in the 911 tape is not the same person that’s in the walk-through,” said Bruegger.

Horn convincingly explained how frightened he was and why he felt he needed to walk outside with a weapon and why he opened fire, according to Bruegger.

“I was telling these people 'don’t move,'” Horn is shown telling Bruegger on the video. “And all the sudden they jumped and I shot them. I was here by myself.”

The detective said the shooting was never a clear-cut crime.

“This was not something that was black or white (or) easily defined as a criminal act or not a criminal act,” said Bruegger.

Crime or not, it touched off a huge controversy. Activists lashed out at the grand jury’s decision not to indict Horn while neighbors and others have rallied and call Horn a hero.

There was also criticism directed at Bruegger and other Pasadena detectives by some who believe if Horn had been black and the men he killed white, things would have turned out much differently.

“I can sit here and honestly say, that person wouldn’t have been arrested that night either,” said Bruegger.

The detective said the tape of the walk-through and interviews with Horn at the Pasadena police station were given to the Harris County District Attorney’s Office.

Bruegger said that he testified before the grand jury and is confident they reviewed all the facts before deciding not to charge Horn.

The police interviews were released on the same day that Horn -- for the first time -- was publicly defending his actions.

In interviews with the Chronicle and radio talk show host Michael Berry, Horn repeated his assertion that he was defending himself and that he doesn’t consider himself a hero.


9 posted on 07/04/2008 9:46:53 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.)
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To: Oshkalaboomboom; Keith Brown; Joe Brower; The Great RJ; xrmusn; IllumiNaughtyByNature; ASOC
Check out this story. If you click on the links there is a video made by the Pasadena police of Joe Horn explaining what happened to detectives.

Detective: Joe Horn was 'distraught, convincing'

06:12 PM CDT on Thursday, July 3, 2008

By Rucks Russell / 11 News

More KHOU.com Video

PASADENA, Texas -- A police walk-through of a crime scene is standard investigative procedure, but none has garnered as much attention in Houston as the one Pasadena detective Matt Bruegger did with Joe Horn.

In a video released by Pasadena police, Bruegger is on camera interviewing Horn after the Pasadena homeowner gunned down two suspected burglars in his yard in November.

“It’s important that everybody that watches this is able to gather all of the information,” Bruegger said.

It is the same information the detective gathered came from a man he described as “distraught” and someone who was honestly attempting to lay out he facts of what had happened when he shot the two men. The audio of the shooting was recorded as Horn talked to a Pasadena police dispatcher during a 911 call.

“The person that’s in the 911 tape is not the same person that’s in the walk-through,” said Bruegger.

Horn convincingly explained how frightened he was and why he felt he needed to walk outside with a weapon and why he opened fire, according to Bruegger.

“I was telling these people 'don’t move,'” Horn is shown telling Bruegger on the video. “And all the sudden they jumped and I shot them. I was here by myself.”

The detective said the shooting was never a clear-cut crime.

“This was not something that was black or white (or) easily defined as a criminal act or not a criminal act,” said Bruegger.

Crime or not, it touched off a huge controversy. Activists lashed out at the grand jury’s decision not to indict Horn while neighbors and others have rallied and call Horn a hero.

There was also criticism directed at Bruegger and other Pasadena detectives by some who believe if Horn had been black and the men he killed white, things would have turned out much differently.

“I can sit here and honestly say, that person wouldn’t have been arrested that night either,” said Bruegger.

The detective said the tape of the walk-through and interviews with Horn at the Pasadena police station were given to the Harris County District Attorney’s Office.

Bruegger said that he testified before the grand jury and is confident they reviewed all the facts before deciding not to charge Horn.

The police interviews were released on the same day that Horn -- for the first time -- was publicly defending his actions.

In interviews with the Chronicle and radio talk show host Michael Berry, Horn repeated his assertion that he was defending himself and that he doesn’t consider himself a hero.


10 posted on 07/04/2008 9:49:21 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature
Does anyone have a link to more info on the "why" part of the fact that the DA is not pressing charges?

I heard a rumor and want to confirm it.

I believe there is more to this than the Lame Stream Media is telling, as always.

Grand jury proceedings are secret in Texas. See post #9. It has a link to the raw video of Joe Horn explaining what happened to a detective. If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what will.

11 posted on 07/04/2008 9:53:16 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
I've followed the link and read as much as I can in the few hours.

Not seeing what I heard. I'll keep looking.

12 posted on 07/04/2008 9:54:42 AM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Here's a link to a story in TIME about Joe Horn's no bill. It deserves a huge Barf Alert!

Looking Kindly on Vigilante Justice

NATHAN THORNBURGH
Thursday, Jul. 03, 2008

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1820028,00.html

13 posted on 07/04/2008 10:18:16 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

***Detective: Joe Horn was ‘distraught, convincing’***

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said that after such a shooting you must look “distraught, broke down, remorseful. After the police and news men leave, break open the champaign!”


14 posted on 07/04/2008 11:01:11 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Paleo Conservative
After a 20-minute session, Deerdoff admitted she had no immediate plans to return to the shooting range. “I’m afraid of guns,” she said as she rolled up her first sporadically punctured silhouette. “It gave me the chills just walking in there.”

If that's how she feels when the gun is in her hand, imagine her state of mind when some perp is pointing it at her.

15 posted on 07/04/2008 11:20:12 AM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Paleo Conservative
The Horn issue, he maintained, should not be used to generalize and distort a matter gun owners feel is a question of constitutional empowerment.

Gun owners don't feel this is a question of "constitutional empowerment", it's an inalienable right. Yevette Orozco needs to brush up on our country's founding documents.

Happy Independence Day, you too, Ms. Orozco.

16 posted on 07/04/2008 11:58:12 AM PDT by theymakemesick (The war on drugs benefits government agencies, politicians and drug dealers, they don't want to win.)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

Heard rumor that an undercover police officer was “on the scene” when the shooting happened. The undercover police officer probably verified Horn’s account of what happened, but the Grand Jury probably agreed that it was important for the undercover officer not to have to give testimony in open court, so he could continue infiltrating this criminal enterprise to get the bigger fish.


17 posted on 07/04/2008 2:05:12 PM PDT by anymouse
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To: anymouse

thanks for the info.


18 posted on 07/04/2008 2:08:46 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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