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To: Girlene; Lancey Howard; jazusamo; 4woodenboats; All
The hearing is getting more coverage than I expected. There's an AP piece on the wire and this in the San Diego Union Tribune...

Motives in killing of Iraqi civilians traded at Article 32 hearing

CAMP PENDLETON -- Was Sgt. John Winnick II following the military's rules of engagement when he fatally shot two Iraqi civilians and possibly injured two others last July 17? Or was he a trigger-happy killer who failed to make sure those civilians posed a risk to him and his sniper unit?

The questions were debated Tuesday by prosecutors and Winnick's defense team during an Article 32 hearing at Camp Pendleton. The proceeding will help determine whether Winnick is court-martialed on charges of voluntary manslaughter, aggravated assault and failure to obey orders or regulations.

If convicted, he could be imprisoned for 40 years and receive a dishonorable discharge.

Winnick is a San Diego native who graduated from Winston High School in Del Mar in 2002. He was on his fourth combat tour when the incident that led to the court proceedings took place near Lake Tharthar in the Anbar province of western Iraq.

On that day, he and five other members of a sniper team were monitoring a mosque and an abandoned store for insurgents. They became suspicious when a succession of vehicles stopped on a nearby road and looked like they were planting a roadside bomb, Sgt. Alexander Wazenkewitz, a team member, testified Tuesday.

Awhile after those vehicles left, an 18-wheel truck stopped at almost the same spot and the driver got out to remove a bag under the truck, Wazenkewitz said.

Winnick shot the driver to death with his rifle and ordered his men to disable the truck. In the ensuing moments, Winnick killed another Iraqi civilian and either he or his Marines injured two more. The truck wasn't searched before it was removed from the site.

As the Article 32 hearing continues, witnesses are expected to testify about the complexity of the military's rules of engagement. Those regulations have been interpreted differently by the Marine Corps' legal and intelligence officers, according to their comments in previous cases involving allegedly unlawful killings of Iraqis.

Capt. Jeffrey King is overseeing Winnick's Article 32 session. Later on, he will recommend to Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland, the convening authority in the case, whether Winnick should go to trial.

Winnick is a member of the Camp Pendleton-based 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Division. He was working with the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit, also based at Camp Pendleton, when the Lake Tharthar incident occurred.

Winnick pre-enlisted in the Marines at age 17 and became a combat veteran at 20.

His battlefield exploits in the 2004 battle of Fallujah, Iraq, caught the eye of author Bing West.

In the book "No True Glory: A Frontline Account of the Battle for Falljuah," Bing described the intensity of the fighting and Winick's actions: "They rushed down to the street. As they moved up the alley, Lance Cpl. John Winnick, a machine-gunner, ran toward (Lt. Jesse) Grapes with a (rocket-propelled grenade) launcher and a bag full of rockets."

"Sir, can I shoot these back at them?" Winnick yelled.

"Do you know how to use that thing?" Grapes asked.

Winnick had never held or fired the launcher during combat, but he convinced Grapes to let him do it then. He fired twice, blowing open a gate and then hitting a fuel drum inside a house as Marines cheered.

"In minutes the fire had spread through the first floor, and the insurgents had fled," Bing wrote.

Winnick's family and friends have create a Web site to support him and seek donations for his legal defense.

Five Marines posted comments on the site, including Wazenkewitz.

"I was at John's side on June 17th and I would have done everything exactly the same. He did nothing wrong," Wazenkewitz wrote. "I have nothing but respect for that man and would take a bullet for him any day."

36 posted on 07/01/2008 3:56:08 PM PDT by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: RedRover
According to Tony Perry's piece, LA Times,

"Marine snipers were never given clear rules about when they could kill a suspected insurgent at long range, a platoon commander testified today at a hearing for a sniper charged with manslaughter and assault in the killing of two Syrians and the wounding of two others.

Lt. Dominic Corabi said that as he and his Marines deployed to Iraq, he tried and failed to get clarification from senior officers about what constitutes "positive identification" and "hostile intent," terms in the official rules of engagement that dictate when Marines can use deadly force.

Enlisted Marines, Corabi said, were worried that their combat decisions could be second-guessed later and that, like the Marines involved in the Haditha killings of 2005, they could find themselves facing criminal charges.

"Their main message was, 'I don't want to ruin my career doing something I think is right and the Marine Corps doesn't,' " Corabi said."
37 posted on 07/01/2008 4:03:04 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: RedRover
Motives in killing of Iraqi civilians traded at Article 32 hearing

I know this is the Democrat press and everything, but do these writers have to be so brazen in their lying? "Iraqi civilians"? Is it not established for certain that the casualties were Syrian?

63 posted on 07/01/2008 10:17:18 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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