Posted on 07/01/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by wintertime
otherwise they are like a cup full of holes. No matter what is poured in, it will be lost.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a very apt why to state the problem.
I don't know you well enough to make any judgement about **you** specifically or personally.
You could say the same thing of the police, firemen, and the military.
“Free” education is a disaster. The students place no worth on it.
There's a lot of truth in that. I think we'd be better off with a system such as that Europeans and Asians use, where the quality & status of your education is directly related to your talent and effort.
Yes, but how could you fix that?
Please study the voucher program in D.C. and tell me why parents of the students in the worst-performing schools were the least likely to apply for vouchers to get their children out of those schools.
I'll be waiting for your answer.
You have said more than once that **ALL** employees of public schools were **either** Marxists **or** useful idiots.
I'm sorry, but that is a condemnation of, and a personal insult to, every public school teacher here on FR...and there are many of us.
And yet you wonder why your name was removed from the Public Education ping list....sheesh!
The following are common to **all** compulsory government schools both good and bad:
1) It is **impossible** for any government school to be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral.
2) All compulsory government schools will establish the religious worldview of some and undermine the religious worldview of others.
3) All compulsory government schools are in conflict with the parents and children's First Amendment Rights to free speech, press, assembly, and expression of religion. And...All government schools *establish* the government religion of Secular Humanism.
4) **All** government schools violate the freedom of conscience and First Amendment Rights of many taxpayers. Taxpayers are under police threat to support schools that often promote a religious, cultural, and political worldview that can never be neutral and is often abhorrent to the conscience of the taxpayer.
A Revolution in education law and teaching methods is what it would take.
Amelia is right, wintertime; bystanders on threads you’ve posted on can attest that you frequently make sweeping statements, then try to backpedal. You might try writing the exceptions into the cut-and-paste text.
Look, I agree with a lot of what you say, but the way you say it does not generally help. Not only that, but cut and paste jobs are very ineffective on FreeRepublic. They demonstrate a lack of original thought about an issue.
You will find in all the many many threads I have posted on about homeschooling, that I often use similar verbiage, but it is never identical. I think this makes my arguments both more effective and more considered since I retype them every time.
I know it is frustrating to see the kind of language the NEA uses to blanket-condemn homeschoolers, or the talking-point-memo articles. But to change hearts and minds, we have to use different tactics than they do.
Amelia, I will point out that groups such as the NEA use language as bad or worse than wintertime’s when referring to homeschool parents. But we are not allowed to get upset at them because they don’t represent all teachers.
I think JenB stated it very nicely. She said, “ My criticism is not of any particular individual teachers, but a system that is so rotten, so corrupt, that the longer we delay, the more painful the remedy will be. “
I believe that there are Marxists throughout the entire government education-industrial-complex. So...What does that make those ( employees and general citizens) who unwittingly help these Marxists?
My criticism, like JenB’s, is not of any specific or individual teachers. The system is rotten to the core. Unfortunately there are plenty of people giving CPR to a dead horse.
By the way, at least in Asian schools students actually pay tuition, for junior high and high schools. Even at “public” schools. Another reason they value it, and one that makes our excuses for our food-kitchen-quality education more pathetic.
At the bottom of it, I think, is the bizarre notion of “fairness”. It’s not fair if some kids don’t have the opportunities other kids get. It’s not fair if they have to pay for their schooling, or maybe even not get any. But life isn’t fair. Maybe we should face that fact and stop pretending that it is.
That's true, but I do not think that those of us on FR belong to or support the NEA or its talking points.
The NEA is very active and powerful in some states, and is rather effective at lobbying the federal government, but it is not at all active or powerful in other states, such as mine.
Yes, there are. And you've already stated that the educators you most admired and tried to model your homeschooling after were Marxists/socialists/communists.
So what does that make you?
Just pointing out that the arguement can cut both ways.
Now, I have personal obligations for the remainder of the day, so I won’t be responding any more for at least today. Please don’t think I’m ignoring you. :-)
Ah!....This is where we differ.
I am not here to change hearts and minds. The professional government school defenders here on this board are not going to change their minds.
Changing minds never was, and is not now, my goal. My goal is to change the language among conservatives, and I have been rewarded ***many,** many** times as these expressions and ideas are picked up by the mainstream press.
Also,,,I retype every post. I have never cut and pasted anything. Not even once. But...When the same NEA talking points resurface, when the same issues present themselves in new reports, how many creative ways is it possible to make the **same** point?
By the way, why is creativity supposed to be one sided? Hm?...Those who wish to see freedom in education are supposed to be creative, but the government school defenders can use the same NEA talking points over and over?
I will give an example:
In post #174 Amelia stated, “If you choose to homeschool, good for you. No one is complaining. But please don't tar all public schools, and all public school students, teachers, and systems, with the same brush. “
Geeze! How many times are government school defenders going to use this exact same talking point? How many times can I respond? How creative can I be in responding to the same tired talking point?
JenB, you say, “ we have to use different tactics than they do.”
I disagree. Conservatives should study carefully the **same** tactics used by the Marxists to infiltrate every social institution in our society. Why reinvent the wheel? If it worked for them, it will work for conservatives.
One of the major ways in which Marxists succeeded was in changing the language.
knock off the personal attacks
Why not? I despise the NEA and everything they have done to try to turn this country into a nanny state and shills for the democratic party. Most of the conservative teachers here are NOT members of the NEA and many of those that are in the NEA are there by force due to the state constitutions. Are you aware that 60% of the NEA budget comes from states where teachers have no choice in joining? I've long believed that the way to break the back of the NEA and other unions is to retract the clause in the state constitutions that give unions the power to reach into the paychecks and take dues from a wide variety of professions. In states such as Virginia and Georgia, the NEA has no more power than any other professional organization with the exceptions of the urban strongholds. There the teachers, largely Democrat, choose to join the NEA because it represents their beliefs. The VEA (or Virginia Education Association) doesn't even have an office in my county or a surrounding county. Teachers with a need for the NEA must travel 40 - 50 miles to meet face to face with a representative. Compare that to NY where I would imagine there is a rep probably in the school.
There is no love for the NEA among conservative teachers - bash all you want, I'll be right there beside you.
Please direct me to the post where I said this. I will ask the moderator to remove it.
If I have **personally** insulted you, I will publicly apologize to everyone on that thread.
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