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To: dbwz
Not from Maine, but in my Northern Tier area, there is no natural gas infrastructure in the rural areas. Even though a NG pipeline runs through my property less than 1/8 mi from the house, there is no way to get hooked up at that distance.

Propane is about $2.70/g right now. Winter rates depend on supplier and amount consumed, but range from (AFAIK) about $2.50 under a cap/keep full for 975—1200 gallons/year to (I have heard) $3/gal for lesser amounts, no cap.

For the first time in over 33 years, we are still paying off last winter's propane bill. Usually, we have it paid in April and are accumulating cash credits by now. We will have it paid off in August.

Oil was the major fuel here up until the 1970s, when it went up in price and folks converted to propane or electricity. When oil went down, the electric rates didn't and people who had converted were paying huge bills and mostly went to propane. Electric bills will increase this year because of all the constraints on coal use and also of rail transport.

I wonder if this is going to be serious enough this winter to turn purple states like WI red? We not only need gasoline to get to work, it is what powers the road snow removal and the home snowblowers/trucks w/blades.

In town, there are people who rail against wood storage in one's yard, which is all people have if they have no basement, and others who are terrified of air pollution from wood heat. NG and electricity are supplied by a large producer located 90 miles away and rates are high, sometimes around $500/month for gas/electric in older, larger homes, more commonly around $100/mo. Taxes and utility fees (water/sewage) are also higher and privacy is nonexistent.

None of us could afford a move to a larger city. Rents/home prices/taxes/fees/loss of independence/nanny state laws forbidding everything from greenhouses to smoking to working on projects in the yard or driveway or to doing your own home maintenance make it a moot choice with little energy savings except perhaps gasoline.

People have lived in my house or on this property since the 1880s.There was no plumbing until 1967. They survived. It is probably the same in Maine. But, there is a lot of high anxiety about surviving this next winter.

30 posted on 06/20/2008 8:56:09 AM PDT by reformedliberal (Capitalism is what happens when governments get out of the way.)
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To: reformedliberal
In town, there are people who rail against wood storage in one's yard, which is all people have if they have no basement, and others who are terrified of air pollution from wood heat.

You're serious?

This issue has the opportunity to reveal just how isolated and unrealistic are the Global Warming Democrats.

36 posted on 06/20/2008 9:07:05 AM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: reformedliberal

Another word about wood heat. Wood heat is nice. It heats up quickly and is nice to look at. However wood here runs about $70/face cord delivered. We use about 8 cords/year. My neighbor has 14 cords piled up beside his house for next winter.

On the downside, a wood stove won’t heat your house. I heats an area very well. The upstairs are rather chilly. One needs wood heat as a backup when everything else terns adverse. Even if you own the trees, there are costs associated with getting it out and cutting it up to go into the stove. Wood heats you three times. Once when you cut the tree down, once when you cut the wood up so it can go into the stove, and once when you burn it. Then there are the ashes to take care of.


46 posted on 06/20/2008 9:46:51 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Swift as the wind; Calmly majestic as a forest; Steady as the mountains.)
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To: reformedliberal
I've been spoiled living in the tri-state (NY-NJ-CT) area I guess. We've always had the gas hookup available wherever we've lived, and that's what we've always used.

Friend of mine moved to a more rural area of NY state this past January, so he's getting a taste of what life is like having to top off propane and oil tanks. I'm not sure what the propane was going for, but the oil was almost $4/gal, and being a new customer he had to shell out for deposit and for the fill-up. Ouch.

Where I am in NJ, the electric rates have just about doubled since last year. I'm actually starting to look into a small wind generator for the house, but something tells me we're going to be running into a wall of NIMBYs and zoning regs. So here we go, electric costs too much and uses too many valuable resources, but we won't let you mediate your costs because the solution looks ugly. Explain to me why a damn Prius is allowed on the road, then. ;-)

51 posted on 06/20/2008 10:00:16 AM PDT by dbwz
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