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To: smoketree
Oh it makes sense enough, but you don't want to hear it. You want everyone to believe that it is ok just to go along with whatever senior military officials say and do because they are honorable men. But these same honorable men, under a lot of pressure from their politically minded civilian overlords, have prosecuted the Haditha marines, and it turns out they did not have a case against the ones who have gone to trial so far. What it means is that either you think that the Haditha Marines are lying, or else, you cannot actually trust what is behind the official actions of the military, unless there is a transparent process.

What you and your fellow travellers don't understand is a simple logical proposition. If you can deny a habeas corpus hearing to just one individual, then you can deny it to everyone. You will counter, but these guys are alien enemy combatants detained on foreign soil and have no constitutional rights. But you fail to see the circularity of your argument. The logical trap in this is that until you can force the government to make the case that they are being held on lawful grounds, you cannot know that they are alien enemy combatants. You assert that they must be because you can trust the military. But this is the same military, the same legal group, that has sworn under oath that they had sufficient evidence to charge and try the Haditha marines. So either you believe that the Haditha marines are guilty despite being found innocent, or else you cannot trust sworn statements by senior military officials, at least not the ones answering to political appointees.

That is why we have an independent judiciary. It has nothing to do with war. We do not have ongoing combat operations in Guantanamo - hard to take I know.

Another point. It is not the habeas rights of enemy combatants that is being protected here. It is the habeas rights of every American citizen. It is your right to have a hearing to prove that you are an American citizen being unlawfully detained that is at issue. If you cannot get a hearing because someone claims you are classified as an enemy combatant, someone as trustworthy as the prosecutors who swore out charges against the Haditha marines, you cannot get a hearing to prove you are an American citizen.

It's called due process. It is your constitutional right and you want to throw it away. I care about my rights even if you want to trample on your own.

I am trying to save your constitution and you want to cheer on the jack booted thugs who want to trample on it.

166 posted on 06/15/2008 9:13:48 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

You make things up.
I never said I was giving up my rights nor taking away anyone else’s rights.
Foreign combatants never have had constitutional rights and shouldn’t.
It’s as simple as that.
This has nothing to do with Haditha which as sad as the case is, it is going through the system and the results so far seem good.
The same left wing looneys behind Haditha are behind giving constitutional rights to foreign combatants. They’re also behind stopping surveilance and information gathering techniques.
In short they are against everything needed to fight this war and you are on their side.
It’s really quite simple, either you are for the US or you are against the US.
All your talk and strawman garbage means nothing but confusion.
Actually the left is another front in the war and as such treasonous.
At some point you have to make a decision as to which side you are on.


167 posted on 06/15/2008 9:30:44 PM PDT by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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