"Oldest Church" Discovery "Ridiculous," Critics Say

National Geographic News ^ | 6-13-2008 | Mati Milstein

[blam]

GGG Ping.

[paudio]

So, can we claim Jordan as a ‘Christian land’ now? /s

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

These could have been the people Saul (Paul) was on his way to arrest when he got knocked off his high horse. Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? p>

[My hearts in London - Everett]

"It sounds rather anachronistic," he said, adding that during the first century, the term "church" or "ekklesia" was used for the assembled body of believers—not the building or catacombs where they were assembling."

I'm glad to see someone knows what they are talking about. There were no "churches", as in physical buildings, in 70 A.D.

[AHerald]

Saul (Paul) was on his way to arrest when he got knocked off his high horse. Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Please forgive the nitpick, but Acts doesn't say that Saul was knocked off a horse. The reader is only told that "he fell to the ground." Although a horse is not even mentioned, there is a long standing history of depicting his conversion in this manner.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

“It sounds rather anachronistic,” he said, adding that during the first century, the term “church” or “ekklesia” was used for the assembled body of believers—not the building or catacombs where they were assembling.”

“I'm glad to see someone knows what they are talking about. There were no “churches”, as in physical buildings, in 70 A.D.”

Yes and no. “ekklesia” does refer to the body of believers, but there were “churches” (in the modern sense of a building for worship) at that time—the Jewish synagogue. The Christians met and worshiped with the Jews until they were kicked out of the synagogues in the 80’s by requiring all entrants to the synagogue to curse Jesus upon entering.

Of course, the Gentile believers met in homes, just as Christians do today in China.

[My hearts in London - Everett]

I tend to agree with the author and also one other I have read who contend that there were no “churches” in 70 A.D. If you want to get technical and call synagogue a church, OK. Early Christians met in believer’s homes as home “churches” do today. Churches as we know them today did not come into existance until Charlemagne, was it?, started creating/building them to give Christianity the look of an “authentic” religion.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

**Please forgive the nitpick, but Acts doesn’t say that Saul was knocked off a horse.***

The term “knocked off his high horse” means a person has been brought low. It does not mean they were actually on a horse.

The same as a person being “cut off at the knees” does not mean a person lost his legs.

However, if a person is granted authority to go and arrest people in another town I don’t think they would be walking to do it.

[AHerald]

Understood. Thanks for the lesson in figurative language. It seems that you just happened to use the one metaphor which also coincides with a commonly misbelief regarding Saul’s conversion story—namely, that he fell off a horse when confronted by the risen Lord.

[safisoft]

Please forgive the nitpick, but Acts doesn't say that Saul was knocked off a horse. ...there is a long standing history of depicting his conversion in this manner

Likewise, another anachronistic statement. "Conversion"? What "conversion?" What religion did Paul belong to while on the road to Damascus? What religion did he belong to after he arrived in Damascus? What "conversion" took place? Read Hebrews 11 recently? What religion were all of those fine folks?

[Drawsing]

What "conversion?" What religion did Paul belong to while on the road to Damascus?

Good point. These early disciples were Jews and thought of themselves that way even after believing in Jesus as the Messiah.

[SunkenCiv]

thanks Blam.

Jordan archaeologists unearth ‘world’s first church’
AFP | June 10, 2008
Posted on 06/10/2008 7:48:00 AM PDT by Between the Lines
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2028840/posts

[SunkenCiv]

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·
	Gods Graves Glyphs	Thanks Blam. The Jordan Times earlier this week quoted archaeologist Abdel-Qader al-Housan, director of the Rihab Center for Archaeological Studies as saying, "We have uncovered what we believe to be the first church in the world, dating from 33 A.D. to 70 A.D."...There are numerous natural caves in Rihab and dozens of churches, but most of them date to the late sixth or early seventh century. Bisheh believes that, based on the Basilican style of its mosaic, St. George's Church dates to this period. But al-Housan and some others believe St. George's Church dates to 230 A.D. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society · · Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · · History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·

[xzins]

Scholars widely believe that organized churches didn't exist until at least the third century A.D.

Those are self-serving scholars with an agenda.

If one reads the bible, in particular Acts 1-3, then one quickly discovers an organized church.

[xzins]

Scholars widely believe that organized churches didn't exist until at least the third century A.D.

Those are self-serving scholars with an agenda.

If one reads the bible, in particular Acts 1-3, then one quickly discovers an organized church.

[Monkey Face]

I try not to get wrapped around the axle when “skeptics” rear their ugly heads. I mean, why speculate that something ISN’T when it’s obvious that something IS or has been?

We’ll have all the answers when we die, because learning does not end. We take our intelligence with us when we go. Since Man only uses about 10% of available brain space (some Darwin Runners-Up use less, of course) then the other 90% must be for something pretty special. Like all the answers to all the questions.

:o])

[SunkenCiv]

:’)

[naturalized]

+1

Another byproduct of the failure to properly teach repentance for the forgiveness of sin.

[Kolokotronis]

” Those are self-serving scholars with an agenda.

If one reads the bible, in particular Acts 1-3, then one quickly discovers an organized church.”

Yup and they are either abysmally stupid and nearly illiterate or they think the people they write for are...or both.