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Pakistan decries 'cowardly' US raid ( But some sources in ISI say Taliban attacked...)
Al Jazeera ^ | WEDNESDAY, JUNE 11, 2008 | Source: Al Jazeera and agencies

Posted on 06/11/2008 8:52:46 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Pakistan decries 'cowardly' US raid

The deaths threaten already fragile
US-Pakistani ties [
AFP]

Pakistan has condemned US-led forces in Afghanistan for an "unprovoked and cowardly" air raid near the border that killed at least 11 Pakistani soldiers.
 
But the Pentagon offered a sharply different interpretation of events on Wednesday, saying US-led forces were acting in self-defence after they had come under fire.

The deaths come at a tense moment in US-Pakistan relations and threaten the already fragile ties.

Kamal Hyder, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Islamabad, said that the US and Pakistan had had a very strong relationship under the previous administration dominated by supporters of Pervez Musharraf, the president.


"The people involved in this incident … were firing on coalition forces and they were well inside of Afghanistan when they began the firing"

Rumi Nielson-Green, US military spokesperson in Afghanistan
But Pakistan now had a civilian government, where there is opposition to the alliance in the so-called war on terror, he said.

 

The US said the Pakistani and American militaries would "look into the matter and review how to prevent a recurrence" and that officials from both sides had already met to "discuss the incident".

 

The US has given Pakistan $10bn in military aid since 2001, but US officials complain Pakistan has done little to crack down on al-Qaeda or the Taliban in the rugged and largely lawless region along the Afghan border. 

 

The soldiers were killed at a border post in the volatile Mohmand province, a tribal region in Pakistan opposite Afghanistan's Kunar province.

 
'Returning fire'
 
The senior US military spokesperson in Afghanistan, Lieutenant-Colonel Rumi Nielson-Green, told Al Jazeera that US-led forces had hit the right target.

 

"The people involved in this incident … were firing on coalition forces and they were well inside of Afghanistan when they began the firing," she said.

 

"[This was] unprovoked and cowardly … we blame the collation forces … it has hit hard at the basis of our co-operation"

Athar Abbas, Pakistan military spokesman
Nielson-Green refused to comment on whether it was Pakistani soldiers who were firing on US-led forces but said video footage of the incident was in the process of being declassified.

 

A statement from the US military said the air and artillery assault was aimed at Taliban fighters nearby and that they had informed Pakistani authorities about the operation.

 
"Coalition forces informed the Pakistan army that they were being engaged by anti-Afghan forces," the US military said, adding that the operation "had been previously co-ordinated with Pakistan".

 

Geoff Morrell, a US defence department spokesman, said "every indication we have is that our guys came under attack and they responded".

 

Affront to sovereignty

 

But in Pakistan, as people wounded in the attack were being treated in a Peshawar hospital, politicians and military offices issued a furious denunciation. 

 

Major-General Athar Abbas, a Pakistan military spokesman, told Al Jazeera there was no provocation from the Pakistani side before the attack.

 

US-led forces were reportedly pursuing
pro-Taliban fighters based in Pakistan [AFP]

"This is an absolutely baseless allegation or explanation. We have co-ordination, we have intelligence sharing. If there was some doubt about any post they should have informed us before taking up any strike."

 
Asked whether Pakistan would continue to co-ordinate with coalition forces, Abbas said: "That is not the point. We have handed over our protest to the coalition forces.
 

"We will wait for their reply. And whatever is their reply we would like them to consider it seriously."

This was "unprovoked and cowardly … we blame the collation forces … it has hit hard at the basis of our co-operation", he said.

 

Yousaf Raza Gilani, Pakistan's prime minister, said it was an affront to national sovereignty.

 

"We will take a stand for sovereignty, integrity and self-respect and we will not allow our soil [to be attacked]," he told parliament.

 
'Legitimate' strike
 
The US military in Kabul, Afghanistan, said the operation was aimed at what were described only as "anti-Afghan forces" who had engaged US–led forces inside Afghan territory.
 
And the Pentagon said the strike was "legitimate".


A US military statement said pro-Taliban fighters were sighted in a wooded area near the border post and US-led forces struck with artillery fire.

Maulvi Omar, a Pakistani Taliban spokesman, said that his fighters had attacked US and Afghan forces as they were setting up a position on the Pakistan side of the border.
 
Eight Taliban fighters were killed and nine others wounded in the subsequent US bombing, he said.

The incident came after Kabul and Western forces in Afghanistan raised doubts about Pakistan's efforts to negotiate pacts with tribal fighters to end violence on its side of the border.
 
Nato says such deals lead to more violence in Afghanistan.



TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; gorparaicheckpoint; pakistan; taliban
H/T to the Strata Sphere Blog....More from there shortly....
1 posted on 06/11/2008 8:52:46 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: All
Now to the Blog where AJStrata does some heavy lifting:

Exactly What Happened On The Pakistan-Afghan Border? Did We Uncover Taliban Allies Inside The Pakistan Government?

*****************************EXCERPT****************************

Published by AJStrata at 9:20 pm under All General Discussions, Bin Laden/GWOT, Pakistan

There appears to be some ‘walking back’ of the outrage at the US by some areas of the Pakistan government regarding the incident on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, which apparently began with militants from Pakistan crossing over the border and attacking Afgahn and/or NATO (US) forces inside Afghanistan.  From there it gets murky.  I will use a combination of recent reports since my previous posts on the matter (here, here and here) to see if we can solve the riddle.  

Because this is long and requires cross checking various sources let me give the bottom line up front.  Taliban sources in one news outlet from Greece (I think) claim the incident was due to coalition forces attacking a Pakistan outpost (ludicrous, I know - there is not rational reason for this).  An independent AFP source noted as a Pak ’security official’ (which should mean ISI) also independently makes the same claim.  

Then later, another Pakistan ’security official’ states the incident actually began with a Taliban incursion into Afghanistan from Pakistan, which was repulsed and the US traced the attackers back and sent bombs to their positions.  This source mirrors the US claims.

My conclusion is the incident actually exposed a much rumored ISI mole who is working for the Taliban, and seems to point to a situation where the Frontier Corps manning the outposts are manned by Taliban allies who probably provided cover fire for their retreating allies and attracted US fire.  The rest of this is how I knitted together various news reports to reach this conclusion.

Let’s begin with an al-Jazeera report that quotes a Pakistani official admitting that the incident began when insurgents crossed from Pakistan into Afghanistan:

The soldiers were killed at a border post in the Mohmand region, opposite Afghanistan’s Kunar province, as US-led forces clashed with fighters attacking from Pakistan, a Pakistani security official said.

“The militants launched a cross-border attack into Afghanistan … our soldiers were killed in a counter-offensive by forces in Afghanistan,” said the official, who declined to be identified.

Emphasis mine.  This is a Pakistan source admitting there was an incursion from Pakistan into Afghanistan. Other reports (like this one from AFP) seem to take the Taliban side of the story where the claim is Afghan troops entered Pakistan to try and take over a Frontier Corps outpost:

Pakistani security officials said the deaths came after Afghan troops crossed the porous frontier and tried to occupy the strategic Pakistani post in the troubled tribal belt, which borders eastern Afghanistan’s Kunar province.

The post was in an area long disputed between the countries.

Pakistani troops repulsed the Afghan soldiers and the coalition then bombed the area. Coalition aircraft also killed around 15 Taliban about a kilometre (half a mile) away, the officials said.

Emphasis mine.  It is interesting to note the source for this ’side’ of the story. It seems possible this whacky  claim may be coming from elements within the ISI.  Keep this in mind as we unravel the accounts because it has been long claimed the ISI has Taliban and al-Qaeda sympathizers and allies amongst its ranks.


2 posted on 06/11/2008 8:55:35 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: NormsRevenge; elhombrelibre; Allegra; SandRat; tobyhill; G8 Diplomat; Dog; Cap Huff; ...

fyi


3 posted on 06/11/2008 8:56:55 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: All

The only “cowardice” we can get accused of is... [unlike the moderate/or/radical Islamic counterparts] being afraid of not hitting the unramed, “guilty” as charged! Imagine if US (or Israel) wouldn’r care about civilian lives...


4 posted on 06/11/2008 9:05:06 PM PDT by PRePublic (Islamic Hamas kidnapped Johnston & then "freed" him)
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To: All
INTERVIEW-Pakistan official says US strike not intentional

*******************H/T to Strata Sphere**************************

Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:16pm EDT

(Updates with fresh quotes, details and background)

By David Morgan

WASHINGTON, June 11 (Reuters) - Pakistan does not view a U.S. air strike that killed 11 Pakistani soldiers at a border post near Afghanistan as an intentional hostile act, Pakistan's ambassador to the United States said on Wednesday.

Ambassador Husain Haqqani rejected U.S. assertions that the U.S. forces had coordinated with Pakistan as they mounted the strike during a counter-offensive against Islamist militants.

But he also told Reuters the incident was not expected to cause Pakistan to reconsider its relationship with Washington despite strong protests in Islamabad, where the U.S. ambassador was summoned for a meeting with the foreign ministry.

"We will look upon this as an incident that is not an intentional action to cause harm to Pakistan," said Haqqani, who took up his duties in Washington this month.

"The issue has been discussed between representatives of the government of Pakistan and representatives of the U.S. government, and we would like the circumstances of the incident investigated," he added.

"We do look upon it as not an act that should cause us to reconsider our partnership, but rather to find ways of improving that partnership," Haqqani said in an interview with Reuters reporters.

He stopped short of calling the air strike accidental, saying its character could not be fully determined until after an investigation.

The soldiers were killed in what a Pakistani security official said was a counter-offensive after militants had launched an attack into Afghanistan. The U.S. military said the strike had been aimed at anti-Afghan militants and Pakistan had been told in advance.

COORDINATION

Haqqani took issue with repeated U.S. assertions that the air strike had been coordinated with Pakistan: "To my knowledge, that is not correct, for the simple reason that if the Pakistani authorities had coordinated the strike, the people killed would not have been Pakistani soldiers."

He said Pakistan would use the incident to try to improve border security coordination with the Afghan government and the U.N.-mandated International Security Assistance Force, which is battling Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan.

Security along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan has long been a prickly issue for the Bush administration, which has been adding troops in Afghanistan to quell rising Taliban violence that U.S. officials say is often planned and even executed from inside Pakistan.

Pakistan's new government, elected in the aftermath of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto's assassination in December, has stirred unease among U.S. officials by seeking peace agreements with militants on its side of the border.

U.S. officials fear that peace deals would only allow militants a freer hand to pursue operations across the border in Afghanistan. NATO reported an increase in April in Taliban violence in eastern Afghanistan, a region near the site of Wednesday's air strike.

"The war against terror requires the sympathetic support of the people of Pakistan, which the new government is trying to build and incidents like this distract from our ability to mobilize Pakistani public opinion against the militants and the terrorists," Haqqani said.

U.S.-controlled Predator drones are believed to have struck at least four sites used by al Qaeda operatives in northwest Pakistan this year, killing dozens of suspected militants and sparking public concern about infringement of Pakistani sovereignty. (Editing by Mohammad Zargham)





5 posted on 06/11/2008 9:08:05 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: All

I think that Reuters Interview needs it’s own thread....


6 posted on 06/11/2008 9:09:21 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Shades of Laos and Cambodia.

However, the ISI Talibani border guards have my sympathies, Ernest. Perhaps their replacements will do a better job in light of this incident.
7 posted on 06/11/2008 9:11:51 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress! It's the sensible solution to restore Command to the People.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Just imagine if Obama was president...

“We in the United States apologize to our Pakistani allies who were secretly trying to plan to kill more American soldiers. We are truly sorry. I have personally sent a resolution to Congress thanking Osama Bin Laden for being brave enough to stand up to our American troops. I will now retire those murderous generals of ours who ordered this cowardly act and and will make sure ALL our soldiers involved will be prosecuted and handed over to the Hague.”


8 posted on 06/11/2008 9:17:01 PM PDT by max americana
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To: All
Related thread:

INTERVIEW-Pakistan official says US strike not intentional

9 posted on 06/11/2008 9:17:42 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I’m not sure why he would make the leap to assume that a ‘security official’ is a member of ISI. It is more likely to be a military official.


10 posted on 06/11/2008 10:00:41 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Eight Taliban fighters were killed and nine others wounded in the subsequent US bombing, he said

If a Taliban admits to that many casualties, you can bet a lot more went to try to find their virgins, and a whole lot more also went to the hospital, posing as civilian casualties.

11 posted on 06/11/2008 10:04:08 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"We will look upon this as an incident that is not an intentional action to cause harm to Pakistan," said Haqqani, who took up his duties in Washington this month

And would prefer to stay in the US after a "Change of Government" in Pakistan. Say to one based even more on Sharia Law. Jihadies with nukes. I'm sure he'd not want to live in any place with a large population or US military facilities though.

12 posted on 06/11/2008 10:06:23 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: bayouranger; beebuster2000; maine-iac7; lancer; voletti; GOPJ; Tigen; AliVeritas; Grimmy; gonzo; ...

Pakistan ۋﮧ۱م

FReepmail if you want on or off

13 posted on 06/12/2008 3:11:28 PM PDT by G8 Diplomat (I hear Australia is lovely in November)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Video proves our side was attacked first - legit

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/jun/12/us.bomb?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

14 posted on 06/12/2008 3:18:46 PM PDT by maine-iac7 (Typical Gun-Toting, Jesus-Loving Gramma)
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