Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told

Deseret News ^ | June 11, 2008 | Leigh Dethman

[deport]

I think a suit against the CPS, if filed, will fail, and I would frankly be surprised to see such a suit filed because of the intense scrutiny which would be placed upon the internal workings of the flds sect.

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I tend to agree that the FLDS doesn’t want the scrutiny that they will receive if they take this to a civil jury for damages. However that said if and when any criminal charges are brought and trials held then they will get tons of internal exposure so at that time another trial in the civil courts may not produce that much additional exposure.

I would guess the plantiff lawyers are lined up trying to get them into a civil actions so they can get their 40% or so cut of any awards. Also I agree I don’t think you’ll find a Texas jury that will agree in the required number to award any large sums. I know it’s not unaminous but don’t know the number that needs to agree in order to find for the plaintiff.

Some have speculated it will be in the Federal courts that this action will occur so as to take it out of the state court system. If that occurs then it would still have to be moved out of state to get it away from a Texas jury.

Time will tell as we are far from this event being over.

[commonguymd]

You are doing the mental gymastics thing again. You assume that if they stack the roles in the community they are going to do it so they can break laws. I still don’t see where they have broken any laws yet. In my hometown, the Catholic Church has enough membership to vote the Catholic mayor in every election. Should I call that a sudden light of patriotism? You should sleep with the light on perhaps. The State and the CPS made the bed that perhaps a sheriff in town has to lie in for the upcoming election. I say too bad. Constitutionally you can’t stop them.

Since there have been no crimes documented yet, you have to take a pretty big leap to say what you say about their intentions.

[UCANSEE2]

“I would be concerned that the State is using that remote possibility to sway public opinion about their actions.”

Of course. Politics in involved, so there is a lot of CYA going on.

There are ‘too’ many other people, and other entities that have a ‘stake’ in what happens at the YFZ Ranch, not to think that there isn’t a lot of misdirection coming from all sides.

That is what makes cases that make the headlines for months at a time so controversial.

And this case has everything. Every hot button issue you could imagine.

[deport]

If you live in that county, you can at least do something, if you think they are trying to ‘takeover’ the political system, like go vote yourself.

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Scheilcher county is very rural with something like 1900 registred voters. Even with that small of a number the FLDS would have to have many more adults registered than they originally had onsite when this event begin to unfold. I read somewhere they were requesting or thinking of requesting some 300 voter registration cards. I also think the county will vote together to keep them out if they attempt a take over.

Wasn’t it in AZ that they took over the gov’t via the ballot box and finally the state had to step in and take control?

[UCANSEE2]

“Wasn’t it in AZ that they took over the gov’t via the ballot box and finally the state had to step in and take control?”

I believe so.

Is that where the mayor was an FLDS and got thrown in jail?

Doesn’t the FLDS own Colorado City?

[San Jacinto]

In addition to the scrutiny which would come from criminal cases, if any, there is also the matter of the custody cases which are still ongoing. So I guess whether the flds sues or not, they are going to get looked at. In Texas courts, the verdict has to be 10-2 on all issues for a judgment to result. In Federal Court, which would be far more likely, suit would be filed in the Western District of Texas. The western district has divisions in Austin, San Antonio, Del Rio, El Paso, and Midland. Offhand, I don’t know which of those covers San Angelo. The State would like to have it in Austin, I bet, and oddly enough, if I were the plaintiff, Austin would be my choice as well, if you even get a choice. In federal court, you’re probably looking at a six person jury.

[UCANSEE2]

I think that there are options.

It could be that the request for 300 voter reg. cards was just a ruse to ‘scare’ the local politicians.

It could be that the FLDS has new leadership, and that they have witnessed that the State took their kids, then gave them back, and is going after the criminals these people were slave to.

Maybe they intend to show they follow the law, by registering to vote. Even if they never vote.

Maybe they think registering will be acceptable by the court as showing they no longer wish to hide.

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I know that the top ‘leaders’ , the ones loyal to Warren, have ‘flown the coop’.

There was an article and thread where the report discussed the fact that they had a ‘new leader’.

So, while I may be skeptical, and wonder if it’s the first option, I’m hoping it’s the second.

The sooner the FLDS people can be separated from those who would use and abuse them, the better.

A new leader who doesn’t lie to his faithful flock, to ensure personal gain or commit illicit acts, would be the best outcome of this all.

[mouser]

Thank you

It will be an interesting case to follow

[Old Mountain man]

ROFLOL!

[UCANSEE2]

Evidence presented in the trial court indicated that the Department began its investigation of the YFZ Ranch on March 29th, when it received a report of sexual abuse of a sixteen-year-old girl on the property.

On April 3rd, the Department entered the Ranch along with law-enforcement personnel and conducted nineteen interviews of girls aged seventeen or under, as well as fifteen to twenty interviews of adults. In the course of these interviews, the Department learned there were many polygamist families living on the Ranch; a number of girls under the age of eighteen living on the Ranch were pregnant or had given birth; both interviewed girls and adults considered no age too young for a girl to be “spiritually” married; and the Ranch’s religious leader, “Uncle Merrill,” had the unilateral power to decide when and to whom they would be married.

Additionally, in the trial court, the Department presented “Bishop’s Records” — documents seized from the Ranch — indicating the presence of several extremely young mothers or pregnant “wives”[1] on the Ranch: a sixteen-year-old “wife” with a child, a sixteen-year-old pregnant “wife,” two pregnant fifteen-year-old “wives,” and a thirteen-year-old who had conceived a child.

http://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/historical/2008/may/080391d.htm

[patton]

IANAL, I am a mathematician, so this is worth what you paid for it -

Assume the case of the 37-yo woman.
File in federal court, naming TX, CPS, the various police agencies, and each individual involved.
Immediately move for change of venue (hey, it might happen...)

Concede, for the purposes of the case, the legitimacy of the raid.
Narrow the case to the fact that the 37-yo was taken (and held), who did it, and under whose orders.
Establish that she preseted ID (BC and DL) prior to being taken.
Establish that she was later released, with no further proof, than same DL and BC.

If TX presents evidence that they varified the documents, establish that that could have been done from squad car on ranch before taking custody of woman.

Put woman in front of jury, ask if she looks closer to 37 or 17.

Collect award (less in TX, more if moved out of state).

[commonguymd]

I ain’t none too impressed with the new frontman. Seems he is swaddled in the old school virtues of the sect. One could hope they find leadership that wants to make sure rules apply to everyone, including their “flock” as you call em.

[patton]

Whch frontman - the flds lawyer?

[UCANSEE2]

“One could hope they find leadership that wants to make sure rules apply to everyone, including their “flock” as you call em.”

I hope no one takes offense to the word flock.

It is what I would call the members of any particular church.

Parish seemed too Catholic. Congregation is hard to spell.

[Nervous Tick]

>> You must also realize the slippery slope of having a *religious* group in our state who is or may be openly violating the laws of said Constitution.

I don’t have any problem with prosecuting lawbreakers, as long as evidence gathering is done in accordance with our constitution and the rule of law is followed scrupulously.

I have a big problem with over-reaching government agencies playing nanny out of “belief” and relying on false reports to deprive citizens of their rights.

I recall that, in this case, a TX appeals court and the TX supreme court said that the law was NOT followed.

I don’t believe that these two courts found CPS in disregard of the law out of favoritism to FLDS or a desire to “let them slide”. Do you?

[commonguymd]

No, Uncle Merrill. Nevertheless, it was just an aside. I for one hope that wrongdoing is punishable within the limits of the constitution, and power to overreach isn’t supported wholesale for the sake of perceived justice which makes slippery slopes for potential government abuse. I am a realist and see that some of the history within the sect seems to be against basic fundamental law in this country, but freedom of religion and being harassed in group think is wrong, basically when you have people being violated by the state for beliefs rather than actions. Actions can be against the law, but beliefs and thoughts can not. If one contrasts this action by the state to the lack of action wherein lies a wholesale culture of this in the inner city one can see the hypocrisy of it all.

[patton]

Agreed.

[MARTIAL MONK]

Colorado City is entirely FLDS just like YFZ compound. The FLDS controlled it completely. They did not control the Mohave County government. The trouble was that Colorado City was on the north side of a big hole in the ground and it was a 270 mile trip to the county seat of Kingman (took about 4 1/2 hours just to get there). Even the DPS officers were FLDS.

[commonguymd]

How about just members. I mean, you use the word flock to illustrate their inability to think on their own don’t you? If that were the case, while spending several months outside the church - don’t you think one or more than one would have talked about the injustices you make up or others manufacture ? One?

[Alice in Wonderland]

No, Uncle Merrill.

"Uncle Merrill" has been MIA for about two months now.

Do you mean this fellow?

This is Willie Jessop who's become the new FLDS spokesperson. Merrill & Willie’s dad are 1st cousins.

Willie was one of Warren’s faithful spies who turned Winston Blackmore in for insubordination during Warren’s church take over. He was also the main thug who stood at the door of the meeting house turning good people away from meetings, funerals and other social activities.

Willie was one who enjoyed evicting people from their own homes at the whim of Warren. His first statement to the media when contacted in Texas was “do unto others as you would have them do to you.”

His wives are Kristina and Cynthia, two of Milward Barlow’s daughters. He has a fifth grade education and his profession is 'dirt digger'.