With U.S. in slump, dual citizenship in EU countries attracts Americans

Palm Beach Post ^ | Saturday, June 07, 2008 | ANDREW ABRAMSON

[Gay State Conservative]

I have NO interest in becoming an Irish citizen, but because of that one grandparent, if I were so inclined, I could take up dual citizenship ?

Yup.There's a lot of documentation that's required (birth certificates,marriage certificates,etc) to prove lineage but if you can provide it you'd qualify.

And, if I were to become a dual citizen, then as an Irish citizen myself, my kids would then be eligible dual citizenship if they chose?

Nope.In order to qualify under the circumstances you set out you would have had to be an Irish citizen on the day they were born.If it had been one of your *parents* rather than a grandparent who was born in Ireland then your kids would be eligible.That's my understanding but if you want the official lowdown contact an Irish consulate.

[not2worry]

Actually, more like 57 or 58, according to the latest Democrat presidential nominee.

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LOL...I could not believe the clip I saw when Obama stated how many States he had visited (he did note that he didn't visit Alaska or Hawaii which I guess means we could have 59 or 60 States if he has any math skills).

Never saw this much on the MSM.

And Senator Obama wants to be the next POTUS? Sounds like his foreign policy is going to be pretty aggressive to add on 6 or 7 more states!

[MuttTheHoople]

Here in Mississippi, I know unemployment is low. Why?

Service is still bad at fast food places.

The "Will Work for Food" guys holding signs out on street corners still won't work for food.

As fat, ugly, and out-of-shape as I am, I still have a part-time job at a Fitness Center. Fitness Centers are the height of "disposable income". Plus, if the economy was bad, there'd be buff guys and built women lining up to try to take my job....and they aren't.

[MuttTheHoople]

Sorry, I always think of France and Germany, and they’re usually around 10%. I DO notice half of those nations are former Eastern Bloc communist countries. THEY know what Socialism is all about, and must try their best to stay away from it.

[null and void]

The "Will Work for Food" guys holding signs out on street corners still won't work for food.

Years back I carried a "Will Micromachine for Food" sign to various conferences and industry meetings.

Got a lot of smiles and laughs, but no interviews...

[kabar]

With the exception of US/Israeli dual citizenship, our State Department does not officially recognize the concept. It’s not illegal, however, because of the 1967 SCOTUS ruling.

Of course it does. The State Department has no choice. It is law. Dual Nationality--A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

The U.S. government allows dual citizenship. United States law recognizes U.S. Dual Citizenship, but the U.S. government does not encourage it is as a matter of policy due to the problems that may arise from it. It is important to understand that a foreign citizen does NOT lose his or her citizenship when becoming a U.S. citizen. An individual that becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization may keep his or her original citizenship. However, as some countries do not recognize dual citizenship, it is important to consider it carefully before applying for U.S. citizenship.

[riverdawg]

My understanding (and I admit I am not an expert on this) is that the US/Israeli exception arose out of the special circumstances surrounding the formation of the state of Israel in 1948. I know a couple of US citizens who spend half of the year in Israel and the other half here, and who also served in the Israeli army, etc. without jeopardizing their US citizenship.

[riverdawg]

“US law does not mention dual nationality ...”

This is what I meant by my statement that the US does not “recognize” dual citizenship.

[riverdawg]

The BLS publishes a table of internationally comparable unemployment rates, which take into account differences across countries in definitions and concepts. So does the OECD.

The “official” unemployment rate doesn’t take into account whether or not you are receiving or have exhausted unemployment benefits. A person’s classification is based on a series of questions about his or her “major activity” during the survey reference week.

[kabar]

This is what I meant by my statement that the US does not “recognize” dual citizenship.

But the U.S. does recognize dual nationality.

[EDINVA]

Thanks. This is all so confusing. If my kid(s) want dual citizenship, think I’ll let them do the research and document acquiring.

I did visit the Irish Foreign Ministry’s website and saw the application form and list of documents. My biggest problem is that I know grandmother was born in Ireland, but not where. She never discussed it. My family took the attitude that once here, they were Americans and that was that.

[null and void]

The “official” unemployment rate doesn’t take into account whether or not you are receiving or have exhausted unemployment benefits. A person’s classification is based on a series of questions about his or her “major activity” during the survey reference week.

Sort of. The "series of questions" are asked on the UI benefit forms.

Once you've exhausted your benefits, you cease filling out the forms...

[riverdawg]

I'm just quoting from your quote of the passage at the State Department website. My interest in this thread started with the practical implications for “dual nationals” of which passport to use when traveling overseas. If you are a US citizen with dual nationality traveling overseas and want the assurance of whatever protection that is afforded you by the US embassy or consulate, my advice is to use your US passport. If you don't and then get into trouble in the foreign country, you may learn quickly (as my co-worker did) how little your dual nationality means to our State Department.

[riverdawg]

“The ‘series of questions’ are asked on the UI benefit forms.”

Yes, for the purpose of determining eligibility for UI benefits. For the purpose of determining the unemployment rate each month, however, the relevant “major activity” questions are asked as part of interviews of a stratified random sample of the working-age population (called the Current Population Survey) conducted by the Census Bureau for the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[null and void]

Yessssss, and where do they get the phone numbers to call? Color me a *little* bit skeptical about just how random the calls are.

Do you even know anyone who has ever actually been called in their entire lives for this survey?

The administration and congress have a strong incentive to report just how truly wonderful thing are to their constituents.

[null and void]

Your friend proved he was Italian (with his Italian Passport) to the US consulate, and didn’t get help from them? Wow. I’m shocked. Not.

Maybe next time he’ll bring his American passport to the US Embassy?

[riverdawg]

“... why would a US diplomat become involved in an issue involving a car accident?”

IIRC, the accident involved minor injuries and considerable property damage and the co-worker was briefly held by the German police. I don't remember if formal charges were filed.

If you carry two passports (let's say US and Italian), enter Italy on the Italian passport and try to return on the US passport, the first thing the DHS officer is going to look for is the Italy stamp in your US passport. Since you don't have one, you will likely have to answer a whole lot of unpleasant questions, at a minimum. With the exception of a couple of Israelis, the (few) people I know with “dual nationality” always travel overseas with their US passport.

[riverdawg]

I was surveyed once, back in the mid-70’s. The survey results are “noisy” but I don't think they are manipulated by the administration or Congress. The Census Bureau and the BLS are fiercely independent, sometimes to their peril.

[kabar]

The State Department recommends the same thing. However, as a US citizen, the State Department must treat you the same even if you have dual citizenship. Problems arise when an individual with dual citizenship [and two passports] gets in trouble in the country of his other citizenship. Then, US officials have a difficult time invoking consular rights and privileges, including visitation in prison.

FYI: I worked for the State Department for 28 years.

[riverdawg]

I certainly will defer to your knowledge of State Department policy. (BTW, did you work at State after 9/11/2001?) My practical advice, however, comes from four decades of travel to foreign countries and the harrowing experiences of friends and co-workers (both US and dual nationals) who have had passport difficulties (some admittedly their own fault) when traveling overseas.

In the case of the woman in the article who is a citizen of the US and who is applying for Romanian citizenship to obtain an EU passport, I would recommend that she use her US passport to travel between the US and Romania and then her Romanian passport if necessary for *work-related* travel throughout the EU. If she isn't working over there, then I would recommend that she use her US passport exclusively throughout the EU; once she enters Romania (or any other EU country) on the US passport she should have no problems traveling from one EU country to the other.