Posted on 06/08/2008 3:25:27 PM PDT by null and void
Any American citizen who was born in the Canal Zone is automatically a Panamanian citizen according to Panamanian law. (Reference John McCain.)
I love it.
I visited Cuba on my other passport.
It was by no means a vacation.
It was an important life learning experience.
“DUAL CITIZENSHIPS should be made ILLEGAL for U.S. citizens — and that would solve A LOT of problems for the American citizen and taxpayer.”
How so? Please explain.
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ect.
“*******All you “dual-citizenship” folks——go——AND STAY THERE!!*******
And don’t let the American door hit you on the a$$ as you leave!”
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This is why I live in the Republic of Panama. This is truly paradise.
Obviously, you do not have more than one passport.
Wait until you have your back against some terrorists demanding passports, and the only one you have is your U.S.
Good luck in your murder which could have been prevented.
“THERE IS NO BETTER PLACE TO LIVE THAN THE USA.”
It sounds you have never lived outside the U.S.A. because you never would have said that.
There seems to be a lot of rhetoric on this issue, but little firsthand knowlege, so before you all start flaming me, think about what I’m saying.
My wife is a dual citizen of the US (naturalized), but born in Italy. She is proud of her US citizenship, and even though at the naturalization ceremony they asked that you rescind your citizenship of birth, she can’t: Italy won’t allow you to give it up, even if you tried. Once you’re Italian, you’re always Italian.
We live and work and pay taxes in the US, and NOT in Europe, so we both play our part, and despite being European, she’s actually moderately conservative. She, like I is disgusted by the leftward bend this nation is taking and is amazed that we find ourselves having to look to France, Italy and other conservative administrations in Europe for cues on how to run a conservative government. We don’t know what will happen in November, but it doesn’t look good. Did you know that Berlusconi just eliminated property taxes on first homes in Italy? Try getting either US party to pull that rabbit out of their hat...
I keep hearing the same mantras about US: love it or leave it, but having dual citizenship doesn’t mean you have to hate the US or love another country. It’s a simple matter of having more choices in life, whether you use them or not. No country is perfect and ultimately, the balance of pros and cons of either will determine where you should live.
Now think of this: we’ve thought of doing missionary work in nations that are openly hostile to Americans. Being known as an American will get you killed or persecuted, however having a passport from a “neutral” country can save your life. Wouldn’t you want to have that trap door? Think of St. Paul, who gained direct court with the Roman Emperor, simply because he was a Roman citizen, despite being from Judeah. That was a perfect example of making use of a second “citizenship”.
As the years go by, I have come to recognize that neither the Dems or the Pubs really give much of a rat’s rear-end about the average Joe in the US, and are in it for themselves. If my government doesn’t care about me, except at tax time, why should I feel an overwhelming sense of devoting to the politicians? I love this country, but I mourn for what she’s becoming. She is not the US I grew up with.
Two final things: why all the emphasis on the value of being a US citizen, when we leave the borders open and try to grant amnesty to millions of illegals? Does that not cheapen the value of who we are as a nation? Does that not make you feel that your rights as a citizen are no better than an illegal’s? Voting rights? This is not a direct democracy...our votes are for trends at best. In the long run, the electoral college and faceless “delegates” decide who gets nominations and elected.
Taxes: did you know that the US and Libya are the only two countries (that I know of) that track their citizens worldwide to pay taxes, even if you don’t live in the US? You pay taxes in your host country AND in the US. Granted there are tax treaties with many countries, it it still double-dipping on the part of the IRS. My wife doesn’t pay taxes to Italy, for example. Did you know that non-US citizens don’t pay capital gains on money invested in the US? But the Obamination now wants to double our percentage to nearly 30%?! Wake up and get informed. It pains me to say, all is not rosy in the good ol’ USA anymore. We’ve been sold a bill of goods, and until we take back our country to the roots it was founded on, options to “wait it out” overseas isn’t all so bad anymore. Funny, we fought a Revolutionary War over far less offenses than we tolerate from our government today. Unbelievable.....
“My example was taken from the experience a few years ago of a colleague who holds both US and Italian citizenships. He traveled to Italy and then from Italy to Germany on the Italian passport, rented a car, got into an auto accident and went to the nearest US consulate (I forget in which city) to get their help in straightening out the resulting mess. They looked at his Italian passport (remember, he didn’t have his US passport) and they told him to get lost.”
Stupid is what stupid does.
It was by no means a vacation.
It was an important life learning experience.
That would make a great vanity thread!
“So in other words, these people with dual-citizenship can vote in elections for both countries. Think about it....that pretty scary.”
No. You are the one who is scary because of your lack of understanding and knowledge.
I’d love to pick that apart point by point.
I can’t.
It’s spot-on.
I hate that...
I admit for reasons I can’t explain, I was a tad callus to a lot of things I saw...apartment building falling apart in front of my eyeballs. I felt I could do nothing about it…Negligible lights over Havana at night as I looked out my wonderful “for foreigners only” first class hotel window.
It wasn’t until we were driving back to the airport, we skirted some areas outside of Havana that looked like those photos after WWII of Germany and elsewhere…. I have never, ever, seen such destruction that I saw in these decaying buildings.
I would love to go back calmly and discreetly photograph what I witnessed.
That hasn't been my experience.I've done a fair amount of overseas travel since I got my Irish passport.I always use the Irish passport to enter a foreign country for two reasons...1)entering a member nation of the European Union with an Irish passport is a lot quicker and easier that using my US passport...plus,I think EU law requires me to do so but I'm not sure...and 2)when traveling elsewhere I fear (rightly or wrongly) that being identified as a US citizen in certain parts of the world is far more dangerous than being identified as an Irish citizen.
Also...I've never been given the least bit of hassle by US Immigration Agents when presented with my US passport that lacks any foreign visas.That doesn't mean it never happens...it just means that it's never happened to me.
I was in a very similar situation and it didn't prevent me from getting it.The Irish consulate accepted my grandmother having been born in Ireland after having been given a copy of her marriage certificate and death certificate...both or which listed her birthplace as "Ireland".If,by chance,you wish to pursue the matter I'd suggest that you give it a try.You just might be able to do it...particularly if Irish authorities haven't changed their policy since I made my application.
I understand your concern about being identified as a US citizen when overseas, but I haven’t had any problems in that regard. Most Europeans are smart enough to understand the difference between a government’s policies (with which they may disagree) and its people. And on many occasions, especially in France and Belgium, I have been treated very kindly by older people who are still grateful to the US for its help during and after WWII.
Not sure I understand what your point is. It appears that this is a problem.
Excellent read concerning this subject - http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/dualcitizenship.html
“....Voting Abroad: Some Issues
Voting is a critical and basic right of membership in any democratic community, but perhaps especially so in the United States. There it is, as noted, an absolutely integral part of democratic theory and American political development. With that right, however, comes great responsibility. Citizens are asked to give their informed choice, not just their vote. They are asked to frame their vote through the lens of national community interest, not merely self interest. It has been assumed for many centuries that the “national community interest” spoken of here is in fact the interest of the American national community, not the interest of a foreign country. Trying to do justice to both community and self interest in a citizen's voting decisions is hard enough. Throwing in the interests of a citizen's country of origin places too much unnecessary and counterproductive weight on top of what is already a difficult set of citizen calculations.
It is said that allowing American citizens to vote abroad will encourage democracy. Yet a review of the evidence suggests this is not necessarily the case. Americans who vote in foreign elections do so to further what they see as their own self-interest.23 The idea that immigrant communities will necessarily foster democracy overlooks the fact that many political parties and interests in the “home country” are now seeking to organize their nationals abroad. Some of these groups are indeed democratic, as most Americans understand that word. However, some are not. During the civil war in El Salvador, the Marxist guerilla group FMLN “organized the Salvadorian communities abroad for solidarity and support activities.”24...”
No, I retired at the beginning of 2000. I agree with your recommendations to trhe Romanian woman. The State Department recommends that the traveller should use their US passport to leave and enter the US.
Unfortunately, those who go, will declare themselves Americans at any sign of trouble.
Parasite mentality.
I don't fear being identified as a US citizen while in Europe.It's Africa,Asia and South America that I have in mind.I use my Irish passport in Europe because of the ease with which I can enter and leave when using it.
Federal law *requires* that a US citizen enters and leaves the US using their US passport regardless of whatever other passports he/she might hold.
Excuse me??? I was born and brought up within 10 miles of where the battles of Lexington and Concord took place.I went to school here.I'm a Vietnam-era vet,having served honorably in the United States Army.I pay taxes.**Boy**,do I pay taxes! I vote...obey the law....
In spite of your urgings to the contrary,I think I'll stay.
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