Posted on 06/07/2008 4:39:31 PM PDT by JRochelle
Gov. Rick Perry hinted Thursday that members of a polygamist sect whose children were recently returned amid a botched sex-abuse investigation should pack their bags, a newspaper reported.
Perry, who was in La Baule, France, for a European business conference, said that the state of Texas has an obligation to protect young women from being forced into marriage and underage sex, The Dallas Morning News reported in its online edition.
He also warned members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that child sex abuse won't be tolerated and even suggested that followers of the renegade Mormon sect may want to get out.
"If you are going to conduct yourself that way, we are going to prosecute you," Perry said. "If you don't want to be prosecuted for those activities, then maybe Texas is not the place you need to consider calling home."
Willie Jessop, an FLDS elder who lives in Utah, said Perry's remarks were shocking, particularly given a Texas Supreme Court ruling that forced this week's return of 440 sect children on the grounds that child welfare officials provided scant evidence that the children were in danger.
"It's an outrage that he should even make such gross and broad allegations," Jessop said. "He's listening to people that tell lies about the FLDS."
FLDS officials have accused the state of persecuting sect members for their religious beliefs.
Texas authorities raided the sprawling compound in west Texas in early April after three calls to a domestic abuse hot line, purportedly from a 16-year-old mother who said she was being abused by her middle-aged husband. The calls are now being investigated as a hoax.
Perry said that using the information state authorities had at the time, "they acted with the best interest of those children."
"If responsibility needs to be taken for (court edicts) saying that we stepped across some legal line, I'll certainly take that responsibility," the governor said.
Jessop, who has insisted that children at the ranch were not mistreated, has sidestepped questions about underage marriages at the Yearning for Zion ranch. But he did announce this week that the church would no longer sanction marriages of any girl too young to give legal consent.
Though the children have been returned, a criminal investigation continues.
Gogov was mimicking what the Governor said to the FLDS in the article.
“If you will simple compare the ping list that is used on these FLDS threads and the ping list on the Mitt Romney/Mormon threads then you will see what I am talking about. “
Then, would it be fair to say one of the major reasons for the emotional split over this case is that this is seen as an attack on a particular religion?
No such thing in Texas.
I don’t understand the verdict but something persuaded the jury to go that way and it was a surprise to many
The jury had eight of alien sympathizers, four ordinary folk. No patriots.
The four holdouts just wanted to go home. We know this because one of them called in to an AM talk show.
It just shows what a piece of shite Harris County jurors and voters are now that the demographics have shifted.
I would not call you an idiot, simply based on my opinion. Being an idiot is an actual thing, and calling someone an idiot in a public forum begs for proof. BTW I don’t care for him either, but there is far too much tossing around of words like idiot, simply because we disagree with someone’s stance on things.
susie
I love it when someone says something outrageous and then, tries to belittle those who point it out by calling them silly names and insinuating they don’t know about American history. Sorry, your post doesn’t help your case in the least. This is nothing like towns warning African Americans to get out before dark. And yes, I’m from the south, so it’s not like I don’t know what you’re talking about.
susie
What is the deal with the sudden use of silly names for girls here? Susie Q? Darling? I would never call you some sort of cutesy diminutive, why do you (and others) think you need to do it to me? You don't know me well enough to call me darling....
susie
Not an emotional split, a logic/emotion split. The anti FLDS/Mormon/Romney Cabal side is emotion based, hatred and loathing. The other side is focused on the issues, facts and the Constitution.
In this particular case both sides are 'correct'. Emotionally what the FLDS are doing is wrong and needs to be stopped, the anti FLDS members emotions and intentions are correct. In real life, emotions generally take precedence over thinking.
The rational side of this debate understands the emotions, but also understands the danger that an emotionally driven government poses to all of us. Laws and the legal system are our buffer against emotion. A society based on emotion would be extremely repressive.
So what we have on the part of the emotional anti FLDS'ers and even some of the rationalists is cognitive dissonance. The rationalists can deal with the cognitive dissonance by recognizing that for the good of our society, law has to take precedence over emotion, even if it means that the guilty go free. The emotional anti FLDS'ers deal with the cognitive dissonance by transferring their anger against anyone who disagrees with them. They are incapable of distinguishing between the two. Emotion is powerful, but it isn't very smart.
Interesting point, I would not have even thought of comparing the two things.
susie
Didn’t he get life without parole?
No such thing in Texas.
Yes there is.
Maybe you should read the Texas Penal Code punishment section. The legislatlure passed Senate Bill 60 providing for life without the possibility of parole in 2005 and signed by the Governor that became effective with capital murder convictions after Sept. 1, 2005..
Thank you!
It shouldn't really be necessary to point out that every lynch mob that ever existed was motivated by their certainty that the object of their efforts was guilty and deserving of quick "justice".
“The anti FLDS/Mormon/Romney Cabal side is emotion based, hatred and loathing.”
If there is such a thing, then there is also a PRO FLDS/Pro Mormon/Pro Romney Cabal that is also emotion based, using hatred and loathing.
Since I have read most every post, on every thread, it is the pro-FLDS/pro-Mormon/Pro-Romney Cabal that has had the most posts deleted.
Which really doesn’t mean anything, other than those who might be defending their religious roots might be more emotional. Yet you continue to call other posters members of some fictional ‘CABAL’ because it is an emotional and inflammatory remark designed to stir up hatred.
I think both ‘sides’ are focused on the issues, facts, and constitution, and laws of Texas, because that is the whole point of this case. It’s just that there is much disagreement over those issues, and facts.
We have two sources of information, that seem to be used here more than the others, the Salt Lake Tribune, and Deseret News, because of their ‘link’ to the FLDS.
They are not ‘unbiased’ sources, whatsoever. The thrust of their bias is something that seems to be arguable as well.
the pro FLDS members emotions and intentions are correct. In real life, emotions generally take precedence over thinking.
(see where that gets us? No where.)
Again, you try to imply that only YOU and others that agree with you are rational. Both ‘sides’ understand the danger of an emotionally driven government.
Yet, many on ‘your’ side want all CPS workers, the Baptists, the Judge, the Governor, and the whole state of TEXAS bankrupted, then hung by the neck, without trial.
I wanted the children removed for as long as it took to ensure the ‘environment’ was made safe, and those suspected of crimes were charged and brought to trial.
WHO in that case, wanted to follow the law, and who wanted to let emotions rule and just do whatever they felt like?
Here we go again. You seem to be unable to even make a statement without including an emotional and incorrect slam at others, while declaring yourself rational for being emotional.
I am not an anti-FLDS’er, but I am an ANTI-WARREN JEFFS’er.
I have stated over and over that Jeffs was a megalomaniac and pervert that risked ruining the FLDS to achieve his goal of being a “GOD”.
The emotional PRO FLDS’ers deal with the cognitive dissonance by transferring their anger against anyone who disagrees with them. They are incapable of distinguishing between the two. Emotion is powerful, but it isn’t very smart.
See, you just repeat the same mantra over and over, and what good does it do? It is as if you think you have to stamp out the ‘anti-FLDS’ers. You seem to be interested in repressing their freedom of speech, and use hatred and emotion as the tools.
So, in all fairness, I shouldn’t direct those comments to YOU specifically.
YET, that is what you do to anyone who disagrees with you.
I am hoping that, in the end, authorities across the country learn how to deal with these ‘sects’ that have been exploited by some nut on a GOD TRIP, and allow them to return to their lives with little damage.
This isn’t the only case in Texas where a SECT has been raided. There are at least two others. And the children weren’t blanketly taken. And these others didn’t have the LDS concerned that they were a blight on their religion.
The ONLY THING this case had to do with religion is the lies that Warren Jeffs told his flock, to ensure their strict loyalty while he committed the crimes.
I did notice that the Upper echelon of the LOYAL INNER CIRCLE has flown the coop, leaving the misled and innocent to take the rap.
I don’t think it is reasonable to expect everyone to not have an emotional response to a situation involving child abuse. I think it is something that those who claim to be ‘rational’ should have the ability to deal with.
And that applies to both ‘sides’. (which I still say, is just a perception).
We are all on the same tide. We want the children safe, we want the law followed, we want those found guilty of crimes put away.
I wouldn’t have either, until it became that way.
It seemed like the ‘religious’ aspect came about due to contention on the political threads over Romney and Mormons.
I guess someone hit somebody’s sore spot. That seemed to draw the Mormons who were insulted that they were being lumped in with the FLDS. And justifiably so.
And not just on F.R. but on boards across the country, and in the media.
My main concern is that the ‘confusion’ over religion will end up ruining any chance of ‘justice’ that the alleged victims could get.
We will have to wait and see how many prosecutions come out of this and how many are found guilty, to know.
Right now, the fact that the children are being returned, and monitored, seems the best outcome for all involved.
I hope it was the ‘right’ thing, in the long run.
Only time will tell.
One more point. (and I really do appreciate your responses)
“Emotionally what the FLDS are doing is wrong and needs to be stopped, “
The big argument really boils down to, HOW it is being stopped. Whether it is being done legally, or not.
Right?
That is the problem with lynch mobs, they are motivated by unchecked emotion. They are Victim, Witness, Sheriff, Judge, Jury and Executioner all wrapped up together. Emotion unrestrained is a terrible thing.
“What is the deal with the sudden use of silly names for girls here? Susie Q? Darling? I would never call you some sort of cutesy diminutive, why do you (and others) think you need to do it to me? You don’t know me well enough to call me darling....”
Isn’t that exactly the same condescending remarks that Barak Hussein Obama has been making to female reporters?
Then can you point out any facts that the CPS or the anti FLDS have alleged (regarding the FLDS at YFZ) that have been verified? Unless you can do that, it is self evident that the anti FLDS and CPS are emotion based, not evidence based.
Yet, many on ‘your’ side want all CPS workers, the Baptists, the Judge, the Governor, and the whole state of TEXAS bankrupted, then hung by the neck, without trial.
Absolutely not. We want an investigation, charges, trial, etc. No one actually expects that to happen though, except for the lawsuits.
I wanted the children removed for as long as it took to ensure the ‘environment’ was made safe, and those suspected of crimes were charged and brought to trial.
That is a perfect example of emotion based 'thinking'. Your emotions are telling you to save the children and you want to act on those emotions before you actually determine that there is in reality a problem. The logical, fact based, thinking is that you can't arrest someone to prevent him from committing a crime. That is what you are proposing.
This isn’t the only case in Texas where a SECT has been raided. There are at least two others. And the children weren’t blanketly taken. And these others didn’t have the LDS concerned that they were a blight on their religion.
Yes Waco is a good example. Why weren't the children all taken from the other sects? Did the CPS have evidence against the other sects?
I don’t think it is reasonable to expect everyone to not have an emotional response to a situation involving child abuse. I think it is something that those who claim to be ‘rational’ should have the ability to deal with.
I agree. Both sides do have an emotional response. It is just that one side is all emotional response and the other tempers their emotions with reason and logic. As human beings, most of us are hardwired to protect children at any cost. Recognizing that and not acting stupidly is important.
Huh? It isn't being stopped, precisely because the CPS and the Judge acted emotionally and broke the law.
Are you saying that the CPS should go back in again, break the law, and start all over? Not even the CPS is that stupid. This is the result that we warned you anti FLDS'ers about.
You need to step back and look at it like a chess game between cops and robbers. The FLDS have a lot of experience playing this game, they are smart and ruthless. Up until now the State of Texas has been stupid and incompetent, primarily because they acted emotionally, without thinking.
You’re right, I shouldn’t have called him an idiot. I was in a bad mood last night. But I do believe Goodhair is a horrible politician of the worst kind. I am shocked how he treats the voters who put him in office.
“Then can you point out any facts that the CPS or the anti FLDS have alleged (regarding the FLDS at YFZ) that have been verified?”
Many. But, they all must be proven in a court of law.
So say you, Judge, Jury, and executioner. You won’t even wait for the trials to begin to see if the evidence is true.
Maybe you do, but some of the posters on here that support your concerns have called for the Judge to be hung without trial, and the CPS, and the state.
Just like some of the posters here have called for all the FLDS men to be hung, without trial.
Both are emotional, and neither is correct.
Isn’t that just an emotional response?
If we want the law followed, then why accept that the law won’t be followed?
“The logical, fact based, thinking is that you can’t arrest someone to prevent him from committing a crime.”
Well, you are wrong about that.
My logic is telling me that laws were written to put the safety of the children first, and that we created the CPS to intervene and remove children, if necessary, BEFORE they determine that there is in reality, a problem. All CPS has to have is complaints, and the results of their ‘investigation’ to make that determination. Sorry if you don’t agree with the law.
I wasn’t referring to Waco. I am referring to very recent ‘raids’ in Texas of ‘cult compounds’.
IIRC, the crimes allegedly committed didn’t involve child abuse, so the rest of your questions are moot.
I was trying to point out that because they didn’t involve the FLDS or Mormons, no one seems to give a darn about what happened at these other two locations. Legally or illegally.
“It is just that one side is all emotional response and the other tempers their emotions with reason and logic.”
This is the downfall of your conversations. You paint your ‘side’ as completely logical, and the other ‘side’ as totally emotional and mindless.
The truth is that both sides contain about the same amount of both.
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