Posted on 06/07/2008 2:49:49 PM PDT by Jonah Johansen
Devil's advocate. So since the order above was to sink the target and ensure no survivors, WHY WAS THE SHIP NOT SUNK? Planes, 5 torpedo boats, etc., etc., and it only LIMPED HOME?? What were Israeli's incompetent?
The Israel back-to-the-wall arguement doesn't really hold water. By the time they attacked the Liberty the Israelis had broken the back of the Egyptian Army in the Siani
Every Egyptian that wasn't already a prisoner was running for the canal and, in most cases, not making it.
The Egyptian (and Jordanian, and Syrian) air force was destroyed on the first day
When the Liberty was attacked the Israelis had in effect already removed the threat to their national existance
They just goofed the execution of the attack on the Liberty. The planes did well enough. The torpedo boats were supposed to finish her off.
Most Liberty survivors accounts talk about 5 torpedos and one hit. There were probably six torpedos launched (two from each boat) with one malfunction on launch (it happens)four clean misses and one hit.
The Israeli boats were originally designed to carry four torpedos apiece but probably downloaded two to compensate for the top weight of the extra 20mm and 40mm cannons plus ammunition.
Why didn't they do a better job of finishing the Liberty off?
Embarrassingly for the Israelis, they were probably just out of ship killing munitions
Oops
But they tried to make up for it by strafing the decks and the first aid and firefighting parties, at close range, making slow runs to insure their gunners had as stable a platform as possible.
Such heros
God bless CAPT Mcgonagle and the crew of the Liberty. DON'T GIVE UP THE SHIP wasn't just a motto to them - they lived it.
It has always bothered me that we have never held Israel to account for this.
No chance, I've seen these threads go on for years and it's always the same.
I have suspected that the U.S. was playing both sides against the middle, and the Is. found them out. Remember, they were democrats in charge at the time.
Unrelated to the content, bur stretching an article over 9 pages for extra page views is a sign of how Internet media is getting more and more annoying and difficult to actually read.
Simple-minded #6961 reporting.
Although I will enjoy the usual suspects making all the facile conclusions to make Israel or the US or both to look like bumbling fools, I believe the facts are quite a bit more complex.
How many billions$ ayear were we giving Egypt then? How many do we give them annually today?
Without declassifying the truly embarrassing facts, no one can ever know if the US was passing on tactical data to the muslims. If that were the case, Israel was totally justified in attacking whomever was aiding the enemy (for whatever reason) during the intense fighting.
It's called survival.
“The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.”
No enemy ship would ever try to discourage attack by pretending to be the ship of an ally or neutral navy.
That is a totally asinine statement, unless you are able to explain why Israel would do so for no reason whatsoever.
"Being able to get away" with it only works in the muslim or banana-republic (Argentinian) mind...
There are some folks that believe, the Soviets were intercepting the satellite links, and turning the info over to the Arabs....This incident occurred just about time that Walker was operational, and passing keys to the Soviets....the other theory, was that the WH was passing info to the Soviet Embassy....
It also works with McNamara's mind, it would seem.
But I say that rendering no opinion on the attack itself. What utterly disgusts me is the statement attributed to McNamara, with equal disdain for LBJ unless McNamara was making it up as he went. Whether it was an accident or on purpose, calling back our rescue mission was inexcusable. Heck, even if we were ready to write off the USS Liberty, it wouldn't have hurt to take out the torpedo boats as a "don't ever let it happen again" message. That wouldn't have given away NSA's capabilities.
The Israelis responsible for the attack, if still living, should be tried before an appropriate court, and if convicted, punished appropriately. The incident still makes me very upset. I am particularly upset that the US did not support our ship and sailors with our available aircraft from the 6th Fleet and Italy.
You prefer to believe that the IAF intentionally attacked a vessel they knew to be American with the intent of sinking it/killing Americans?
Okay. For the moment, let's assume you're correct. Why would they do that?
Okay, doofus, I'll spell it out from you. Israel, for whatever reason they attacked the ship, knew they could get away with it because they knew the US would never relatiate militarily against them. The fact that no retaliation happened shows they gambled correctly.
I've read no good excuse for the attack, and those trying to excuse it usually end up trying to flash the anti-semite card, which means even they know they can't justify it.
She was a tough ship, and I guess the Israelis really were scratching their heads as to why she just would not go down. McGonagle and her crew were real heroes that day.
So do I... and not only for this, but for his comments in his autobiography, where he stated that they KNEW going in that we could never actually WIN in Vietnam, but they decided to keep that from the President and go to war ANYWAY.
I equally loathe Henry Kissinger... for writing off over 2000 men missing in action, many of whom WERE YET ALIVE, just so he could get his nobel peace prize.
58,000-PLUS of my generation killed and scores of thousands more injured and maimed to NO LEGITIMATE PURPOSE. And a goodly number of them were killed because McNamara pushed that POS M-16 on us that kept jamming in the field and folks found dead after the battle, with their rifles apart, trying to clear jams. You BET I loathe the pair of them.
>Remember, they were democrats in charge at the time.<
You aren’t a dang Newbie. When in the hell are you going to learn that there isn’t an iota of difference between a Republican POLITICIAN and a Democrat POLITICIAN. If there was a difference, there would be no way they could keep a single secret from us people, the voters, for more than a couple of months.
Both Parties know what the outside game is and both Parties make the rules so that newcomers don’t get to see the inside game. How do you think that they can rig the score every time something important comes up.
Or are you someone who honestly thinks that the price of fuel isn’t being controlled by Congress and the Senate? Do you think Congress can’t change a few laws and make America totally uninviting to illegal aliens too? No, one Party is not in control while the other sits on the sidelines and wishes. It is all done with teamwork, hand in hand.
He is on the piss on his grave list around here.
Yep, we should've stayed with the .308 M-14, which was a damned fine rifle.
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