Texas judge walks off bench; when FLDS children will return is unknown

The Deseret News ^ | 5/30/2008 | Ben Winslow and Nancy Perkins

[Utah Girl]

The devil was in the details.

Discussions about a proposed order involving the return of children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch broke down late this afternoon when attorneys for the families wanted to review proposed changes with their clients.

Judge Barbara Walther announced the attorneys had better get all of their clients' signatures before she would sign the agreement and abruptly left the bench late this afternoon.

A lawyer for the families, Laura Shockley, said she expected attorneys would return to an Austin appeals court Monday to push for an order returning the children. It was the 3rd Court of Appeals that said Walther should not have ordered the children to be removed from the ranch and warned that if Walther failed to act, they would do it for her.

Lawyers for the families said that an agreement had been tentatively reached with Child Protective Services when they walked into court earlier today. Walther, however, expressed concerns about the proposed agreement and called an hourlong recess. She then returned to the bench with her own proposed order.

That led to concerns from many family attorneys who raised objections and questions on behalf of their clients.

The judge added additional restrictions to the the agreement, including psychological evaluations and allowing CPS to do inspections at the children's home at any time. Several of the more than 100 attorneys in the courtroom and patched into the hearing through phone lines objected to the judge's additions.

"The court does not have the power, with all due respect, to enter any other order (other than vacating)," said Julie Balovich of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aid over the telephone. She argued that no evidence justifying the additional restrictions had been entered as evidence before the judge.

After reviewing the appellate court decision, Walther returned to the bench and announced she believed the Supreme Court's decision upholding the appellate court decision gave her the authority to impose whatever conditions she feels are necessary.

"The Supreme Court does say this court can place restrictions on the parents. I do not read that this decision says that this court is required to have another hearing to do that. You may interpret that however you choose."

With that, the judge abruptly left the bench, saying she would await any submitted orders.

Immediately, attorneys in the courtroom and over the phone, expressed confusion.

"What did she say?" one attorney asked.

"Do We have another hearing?"

"What did she order?"

No additional hearings are currently scheduled. The judge signed no orders that would allow for the release of any children.

Lawyers for CPS left the courthouse declining to speak about the hearing.

"I'm going to do what the court directed," said CPS attorney Gary Banks.

[mouser]

There are cattle here that can outrun some of the slower cow ponies

if the cattle are a bit wild any horse has trouble getting close but both the belgian and percherons have been used for steeple chase and the jumps so they have quite a bit of speed and power.

have rode a belgian quarter horse cross that had all the speed I needed still not my choice for a race horse.

[El Gato]

But can they catch up to the cattle so you can get them roped to begin with?

Just cause they are big and strong, doesn't mean they also aren't fast. They've certainly got longer legs than your average cow pony, or cow for that matter. They may not move then as fast, in terms of strides per minute, but they move farther with each stride. They do tend to be a handful to drive, but not so bad with only a pair. Six horse hitches get real dicey though. Still at shows, part of the competition or demonstration is maneuvering, often with 3 or 4 rigs in a relatively small area, all backing, and turning and so forth. Pretty cool to watch. Helps for the driver to have big hands to hold all those reins. Although it takes a big horse show to draw in very many 6 horse hitches. Just think how much 6 Belgians eat! Of course if you've got lots of range/pasture land and/or your own hay fields, that isn't quite such a factor.

[El Gato]

Those being lighter would likely eat less. I don’t think they would make too good of cow ponies in the down

You can use 'em for all sorts of pulling. Pulling stumps for example...oops forgot, not many trees in those parts.

Have to think about other uses to be able to justify having them. Although "Just because they are awesome" should be good enough for people with enough cash to spend on expensive hobbies. But of course they were bred as (heavy) work animals, and they can still "git 'er done"

Maybe you could just hitch up a few of those big fast cows. That's been done too you know. Might take a double yoke, although I'm sure a single yoke (2 cows) could pull it under benign conditions.

[SouthTexas]

LOL I’m sure every generation has said the same thing.

My grandmother taught my wife how to can vegetables and didn’t think we had the ability to survive because we had to go to the store for food.

[lady lawyer]

CPS has maintained throughout this whole thing that the entire ranch was one “household.” It was their justification for grabbing all the children, instead of just those who might arguably have been “married” sometime soon. Then, instead of giving each family an individualized hearing as to whether any child in that family was in imminent danger, they lumped them all together.

CPS can’t take that position when they are grabbing the children, then insist on individualized family identification when they are trying to avoid giving them back.

[Diamond]

...a substantial percentage of the F(lds) supporters want special treatment.

Can you name a single "FLDS supporter" anywhere on this forum?

Can you identifiy any specific "special treatment" that these alleged "FLDS supporters" want?

Cordially,

[muawiyah]

They want to be dealt with totally separately from everybody else in the United States and be free to make their own laws.

End of story.

That is, "special".

[Diamond]

Yes, I'm sure that the FLDS would like to be dealt with totally separately from everybody else in the United States and be free to make their own laws, but what I asked you was,

Can you name a single "FLDS supporter" anywhere on this forum?

Can you identifiy any specific "special treatment" that these alleged "FLDS supporters" want?

Cordially,

[muawiyah]

Vigalantism - Hmmm - doughnuts!!!!!!!

Hardly - all you'all gotta' do is abide by the law of the land. Time to turn state's evidence on your prophet and his cronies.

[SouthTexas]

That’s the best you have? You have no valid argument so you resort to name calling?

Maybe you are the one that likes little girls. With all your feigned indignity it really wouldn’t surprise me.

[muawiyah]

You’ve been referring to the side favoring taking down F(lds) all sorts of names right from the beginning.

[Alice in Wonderland]

Update:

Late Wednesday, an Arizona judge dismissed four incest charges against Warren Jeffs, the jailed prophet of the FLDS church, but let stand the remaining four charges of sexual conduct with a minor.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-polygamy5-2008jun05,0,2110033.story

[El Gato]

Late Wednesday, an Arizona judge dismissed four incest charges

Thanks, I'd seen that. Sounds like a minor technical victory for the defense. He'll still tack on a few dozen more years to whatever he's now serving in Utah.

[El Gato]

My grandmother taught my wife how to can vegetables and didn’t think we had the ability to survive because we had to go to the store for food.

You should listen to your grandmother. She's right.

[SouthTexas]

She did, was puting up tomatoes the other day.

She doesn’t can as much as she did when grandmother was alive, but at least she knows how. One thing she still does with consistency is pears. Her uncle has a tree that yields about 6-8 pints of pear butter. That is just the “kick start” though. Once started, it’s a trip to HEB to gather more twice a week. :)