Texas judge walks off bench; when FLDS children will return is unknown

The Deseret News ^ | 5/30/2008 | Ben Winslow and Nancy Perkins

[Utah Girl]

The devil was in the details.

Discussions about a proposed order involving the return of children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch broke down late this afternoon when attorneys for the families wanted to review proposed changes with their clients.

Judge Barbara Walther announced the attorneys had better get all of their clients' signatures before she would sign the agreement and abruptly left the bench late this afternoon.

A lawyer for the families, Laura Shockley, said she expected attorneys would return to an Austin appeals court Monday to push for an order returning the children. It was the 3rd Court of Appeals that said Walther should not have ordered the children to be removed from the ranch and warned that if Walther failed to act, they would do it for her.

Lawyers for the families said that an agreement had been tentatively reached with Child Protective Services when they walked into court earlier today. Walther, however, expressed concerns about the proposed agreement and called an hourlong recess. She then returned to the bench with her own proposed order.

That led to concerns from many family attorneys who raised objections and questions on behalf of their clients.

The judge added additional restrictions to the the agreement, including psychological evaluations and allowing CPS to do inspections at the children's home at any time. Several of the more than 100 attorneys in the courtroom and patched into the hearing through phone lines objected to the judge's additions.

"The court does not have the power, with all due respect, to enter any other order (other than vacating)," said Julie Balovich of the Texas RioGrande Legal Aid over the telephone. She argued that no evidence justifying the additional restrictions had been entered as evidence before the judge.

After reviewing the appellate court decision, Walther returned to the bench and announced she believed the Supreme Court's decision upholding the appellate court decision gave her the authority to impose whatever conditions she feels are necessary.

"The Supreme Court does say this court can place restrictions on the parents. I do not read that this decision says that this court is required to have another hearing to do that. You may interpret that however you choose."

With that, the judge abruptly left the bench, saying she would await any submitted orders.

Immediately, attorneys in the courtroom and over the phone, expressed confusion.

"What did she say?" one attorney asked.

"Do We have another hearing?"

"What did she order?"

No additional hearings are currently scheduled. The judge signed no orders that would allow for the release of any children.

Lawyers for CPS left the courthouse declining to speak about the hearing.

"I'm going to do what the court directed," said CPS attorney Gary Banks.

[abb]

who got banned?

[kindred]

Another lib dib unjust fool judge that should never have been a judge, she apparantly has little if any morality considering the great damage she has done to the American judicial system of ethics as well as to the children and parents who are still seperated from one another.
The woman is just one of many liberal agenda power mad judges that are legislating from the bench and destroying America and Americans.

[Pete98]

Oh I agree, but the facts on the ground are:

The Texas CPS has the children. The families have a piece of paper with a court ruling written on it. What good is a piece of paper?

Apparently judge Walther is taking the stance, “The higher court has made its ruling, now let them enforce it.”

The plan of the CPS is to make this fiasco drag on and on and on for months or even years, and they will keep the children that whole time, steadily brainwashing them to hate their families (”They don’t love you! They don’t WANT you back! If they wanted you, don’t you think they would have come to get you by now?”).

By the time the children are returned, their mothers won’t even recognize them, especially in a crowd of 400.

[HEY4QDEMS]

CPS has the duty to protect the kids, not prosecute the rapists. If there is an allegation of abuse, CPS acts and then figures out the facts later. This is SOP.

Currently the CPS has a reasonable suspicion that four or five members of the ranch may have been victims of sexual abuse. The TXSC's ruling provides for the continued detention of those children.
CPS acknowledges that there has only been one allegation of abuse, an anonymous call from outside of Texas, and admits that they made an unprecedented decision to circumvent their chartered procedures.
IMO, This is wrong.

May question to you is this:
If you lived in a large apartment complex with your children along with many other families with children and someone several hundred miles away made an anonymous phone call stating that they lived in your apartment complex and that they were a victim of sexual abuse, how would you feel if the CPS swooped in and took everyone's children including yours?

Citing the Jeffs photo is nothing short of guilt by association. If there are victims in the group and the perps can be identified, I'm all for them getting the justice they deserve, but to make casualties of the innocent to achieve this is unacceptable to me and to anyone else who believes in equal justice.

[savedbygrace]

Sounds like the judgette got her widdle feelings hurt by the TSC.

[savedbygrace]

Guilty!

[nomorelurker]

Actually a complaint would need to be filed with the Texas Commission on Judicial Conduct. They police judges the state bar polices attorneys. We may be close to such a filing. Also motions for Walther to recuse herself may be in the works. She had the duty under the Tx Supreme Court ruling to vacate her original ruling and order the kids returned. She has the right to impose conditions or restrictions on that return. She does not have the right to force parents to agree to them by signing off on her order. Should they disobey her she has many sanctions to use to enforce it. Should the parents not not like her imposed conditions they can then appeal. that's they way it is supposed to work. She cannot walk off the bench and do nothing however that is clearly wrong.

[seanrobins]

The “presumption of innocence” is applicable in the criminal context, not in the Family Court, where the court is looking to the welfare of the child. The standard for taking action in the interest of the child is VERY low.

[seanrobins]

I would have thought that the evidence of underage marriages, and the evidence that several underage girls are currently pregnant under the circumstances - i.e., this little “gang” society that they’re living in - would be enough to raise sufficient concerns to look into the entirety of this mess.

The FLDS should not be permitted to hide behind “religion” in their abuse of children (where or not the men are married to them)

[abb]

Perhaps Crazy Judge Barbara Walther is the modern-day reincarnation of this famous judge.

John Hathorne

John Hathorne was born on August 5 1641 in Salem to William Hathorne and Anne Smith. Hathorne, the son of a successful farmer, became a noted Salem merchant and a politician. Hathorne's political skills won him a position as justice of the peace and county judge. A very religious man, Hathorne served on a committee to find a replacement for Salem minister George Burroughs in 1686. He later sentenced Burroughs to death in the 1692 witch trials. Hathorne believed the devil could use witches to undermine the purpose of the church and do harm to people. Because of this belief, Hathorne and another justice of the peace, Jonathan Corwin, took very seriously complaints about suspected witches. Both immediately issued warrants for Sarah Good, Sarah Osborne, and Tituba when witchcraft accusations were made against them. As justices of the peace, Hathorne and Corwin conducted initial examinations of the suspected witches. Hathorne often appeared to act more as a prosecutor than an impartial inquisitioner. Consider this exchange during the Bridget Bishop examination:

Hathorne: How do you know that you are not a witch?

Bishop: I do not know what you say. . .I know nothing of it.

Hathorne: Why look you, you are taken now in a flat lye.

Hathorne died on May 10, 1717 in Salem. Many years later, Hathorne's grandson, author Nathaniel Hawthorne, added a "w" in his to distance himself from Hathorne because of the role he played in the Salem trials.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/SAL_BHAT.HTM

Description: Wax figure of magistrate John Hathorne outside the Salem Wax Museum of Witches and Seafarers.

[HEY4QDEMS]

>>>The Pope is not a demented sex maniac who is in charge of running a sex trade with 13 and 14 year old girls.<<<

Until not too long ago, Judeo-Christian brides of that age were not uncommon.

I do believe that that is too young for a girl to be wed but that is because I've been indoctrinated my the ways of modern society.

[Drango]

FLDS raid appears to have backfired

May 31, 2008

ELDORADO, TEXAS — As officials haggled Friday over how to return more than 400 children to their parents, it was becoming increasingly clear that Texas’ audacious attempt to rein in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints had backfired — and become a lesson in the difficulty of cracking down on the 10,000-member polygamist sect.

“If you want to make any change . . . it has to go case by case, one child at a time,” said Ellen Marrus, co-director of the Center for Children, Law and Policy at the University of Houston. “It’s going to be very slow.”

~snip
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-polygamist31-2008may31,0,5459251.story

[humblegunner]

It just means the church will end up owning an even bigger chunk of Texas

It's not a church.

It's a sick sex cult.

[HEY4QDEMS]

I’m a Catholic.

There is plenty of evidence of Catholic priests molesting young boys.

If I take my son to church every Sunday, (where these priests happen to work), would I be hiding behind my religion if I tried to stop the state from taking him away?

[HEY4QDEMS]

>>> The standard for taking action in the interest of the child is VERY low.
<<<

As low as the standard may be, the TSC has determined that CPS has not met it.

[abb]

More.

http://www.salemwitchmuseum.com/tour/site16.html

a. Magistrate John Hathorne, who served as an interrogator in most of the witchcraft examinations and later as a member of the Court of Oyer and Terminer, died on 10 May 1717, aged seventy-six years. Hathorne’s most famous descendant was the writer Nathaniel Hawthorne who added a “w” to the family name. Hawthorne wrote that his great-great- grandfather “inherited the persecuting spirit, and made himself so conspicuous in the martyrdom of the witches, that their blood may fairly be said to have left a stain upon him.”

[abb]

More.

http://www.iath.virginia.edu/salem/people/j_hathorne.html

Hathorne's role in the trials leaves room for questioning his motives for participating. Prior to Governor Phip's arrival in Massachusetts, both Hathorne and Corwin had actively jailed many who were suspected of witchcraft, thus setting the scene for each man to be biased toward the guilt of those accused. Hathorne also appeared strangely calm while questioning those accused of acting in the devil's name. Even Bridget Bishop wondered why he did not fear that she would harm him if she was a witch: Hathorne: How can you [Bridget Bishop] know, you are no Witch, & yet not know what a Witch is. Bridget Bishop: I am clear: if I were any such person you should know it. (SWP I: 84, emphasis added)

If Hathorne believed that God protected him or if he knew that those he questioned could be innocent cannot be proven either way. Bernard Rosenthal suggests in Salem Story the possibility that Hathorne might have also stood to have some financial gain from the trials from the seizure of property that took place, and the same with the other judges. Whatever his motives for such aggressive prosecution, however, Hathorne put many innocent people to death and became the shame of his family even down to his great-grandson, Nathaniel Hawthorne.

[Puddleglum]

I would have thought that the evidence of underage marriages, and the evidence that several underage girls are currently pregnant under the circumstances - i.e., this little “gang” society that they’re living in - would be enough to raise sufficient concerns to look into the entirety of this mess.

You ARE talking about the inner city, right?

[SouthTexas]

That potential is certainly there, however, all many of us want is for DPS and the court to abide by existing law.

Those that broke the law should be punished, on BOTH sides of the aisle.

[mad_as_he$$]

Really? Does the Supreme Court of Texas have it’s own police force?