Posted on 05/30/2008 5:34:10 PM PDT by festus
SAN ANGELO, Texas - A plan to begin reuniting parents with more than 400 children removed from a polygamist group's ranch has been thrown into doubt because a judge and the families are clashing over proposed restrictions.
Texas District Judge Barbara Walther has refused to sign an order restoring custody to the parents until they agree to more restrictions than state child-welfare officials have proposed.
Walther was directed by an appeals court to reverse her ruling last month putting all children from the Yearning For Zion Ranch into foster case. The Texas Supreme Court affirmed the appeals court's decision Thursday and rejected the state's argument that all the children were in immediate danger from what it said was a cycle of sexual abuse of teenage girls at the ranch.
Okay, but you must have missed this part: “He was there in Texas and married girls at the ranch that were 12, 14, and 15 years old.”
;-)
Don’t argue with em you are wasting your time. They aren’t bothered by facts, reason or common sense.
They want the social workers subject to the courts except when the courts are more restrictive than the social workers then they don’t want the social workers subject to the courts.
They want the whole thing to be governed by process yet they get mad if the process proceeds along a normal course of action and does immediately happen according to the whim of whichever judge they favor more.
Frankly I’m astounded to find such brazen and open support of the heterosexual branch of nambla on the free republic.
The idea that appellate judges are infallible has taken root yet on another issue appellate judges are completely not to be trusted.
Emotion rules the day and sympathy for the rights of perps outweighs their concern for the children being forced to grow up in a world where you are told who to marry, often the same man as your other sisters, at the age of 12 or 14, and you think you are going to hell if you don’t. Where even after you are married you can be forced to marry another man if someone else decides you have to.
The Muslims are regularly impuned for such behavior.
But wrap yourself in the tablets of the angel Moroni and suddenly a vocal crowd will show up on the free republic to support and defend the act of polygamous child molestation.
I have even seen some here argue that Warren Jeffs was framed.
Some of those children may be his. But that's only indirectly the basis of the warrant to collect his DNA, that seems to be setting him up for Child Sexual Abuse charges. Unfortunately the evidence supporting the DNA warrant was obtained from a warrant issued on the basis of bogus phone call as well as a second warrant obtained on the basis of evidence obtained via the first one.
That first warrant, and the companion one obtained by CPS based on the same phone call are going to be real problematic when it comes to trying to get a criminal conviction on the cases of Child Sexual Abuse which very probably did indeed occur. (Not that all the men were committing it, nor all the under 18 year old girls being subject to it, that's not even alleged).
Here's some ideas:
1- Vacate the illegal order directly.
2- Issue an order to the CPS to return the children immediately.
3- Cite the lower court judge for contempt.
4- Issue a warrant for the immediate arrest of the lower court judge to have her show cause why she should not be held in contempt.
The arrest of the lower court judge would send a clear message to the CPS that there are consequences for ignoring court orders. The head of the CPS would probably take on the chore of returning the children personally and within one hour of the Appeals Court order.
About the only person with the position to even attempt to ignore a state court order would be the state governor. Everybody else has to expect that the state governor will provide all the means necessary for the courts to carry out their orders.
Just curious, do you believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman? Do you believe that "Heather Has Two Mommies" is a good environment for children to be brought up in? How about "Heather Has Six Mommies" and they're all fighting for necessities for their own children within the communal home?
At the very least the polygamy lifestyle goes against the "One man and one woman" marriage laws.
While it may be true that not all the men were committing the act the acts were being committed in the open. All the men and women there knew and did nothing. That makes them accomplices.
To my mind aiding and abetting a molestation is just as wrong, and is in fact against the laws of TX and every other state in the republic, as the actual act of molestation itself.
This fact is lost on the loudest and most pro-pervert liberal segment that occupies these threads.
You do understand that there are higher courts and lower courts. The lower courts must follow the orders of the higher courts. The higher courts, two of them, have ordered the lower court Judge (she's the only judge of that court) to vacate, that is rescind her order granting custody of the children to CPS. She has no choice. She and CPS have some options, but not one to apply conditions before she'll vacate that order.
That's the process. Higher courts overrule (or uphold) lower courts. Lower courts are not to defy higher courts with appellate jurisdiction over them.
“The underage teenage pregnant girls, some with more than one child. Fathered by much older men?”
Sounds like they could be collecting welfare checks from anyplace in the country!
You hit the nail on the head with this one.
Replace the FLDS with Homosexuals and everyone would be clamoring in support of TX. Yet the core issue is the same.
There’s something about the idea that these are “families” that triggers an emotional reaction. But these are not families. Families have a mother and a father. Not one father and twenty mothers some not even old enough to bear children themselves yet.
Is that the law?
Got a link? Being framed implies innocence. I haven't seen anyone saying that he's innocent. Saying that the proper legal procedures, which protect us all, have not been followed is not the same as saying the alleged perp is innocent. Far from it. Virtually all have been saying "bring charges against the criminals".
After a trial and conviction, then each convicted sexual abuser should get the maximum sentence possible for each count of abuse, sentences to be served sequentially, not concurrently.
And all good ones too. However, remember we are arguing for the rule of law. So I was speaking of provisions already in the law. Statute, or if that is silent, common, although I'd prefer statute, and I'd prefer that to have already been tested in the courts. But if this must be the test case, so be it.
Certainly the ones who’d attained “priesthood” as priests and counselors etc. are mandated to report it. But quite often in family incest cases if the other parent knew and did nothing they are regularly brought up on charges.
It may provide a break from the brainwashing that might
keep the kids from growing up as cultists. One may hope.
LAW! Do you even understand the concept???
CHILD ABUSE! Do you even understand the concept?
Do you go to websites having to do with young girls?
Fantasize about that stuff?
Read FLDS tracts?
“Good to see at least one judge in TX understands what needs to be done.”
Oh, yeah...
Those wierdos ought to be damned glad they weren’t burnt alive by the “authorities”! Not even a dog shot!
The Waco Standard of total immolation is preferred by some jackbooted types, but mere inhumanity will have to do in tis case.
There was nothing "extra-legal" about any of the measures I listed. One makes a grave mistake underestimating the power of a judge in his own courtroom, or for that matter the same judge making a legal ruling over which he has proper jurisdiction.
The lower court judge is no more immune to the orders of a higher court than you or me. What do you think would happen to you if you failed to carry out an explicit order of that court? Better have your lawyer's phone number handy.
My feelings are irrelevant. The LAW is what matters.
Like the State and Judge, you insist on seeing all 800 of these people as belonging to 1 herd instead of 70 families. And as a result, you believe that it's all 1 sexual free-for-all and all the children belong to whoever is handiest at the moment.
They are INDIVIDUALS with INDIVIDUAL rights, adult and child and they have the RIGHT to an INDIVIDUAL trial!
As yet, no PROOF of a legal nature has surfaced that polygamy has happened on that ranch, let alone that every person down there practiced it!
In fact, I'm not convinced that ANY polygamy happened down there. Since polygamy is illegal the only marriage that is legal and sanctioned by the State is the marriage that has a marriage license attached to it.
Outside of that, they can hold a ceremony in their temple, but without a 2nd marriage license, that isn't actually a marriage. They can enter it into the annals of their church but without a 2nd marriage license, it's not a legal marriage. They can exchange rings, but without a 2nd marriage license, there's no legal marriage. They can enter it into the family Bible, but without a 2nd marriage license, it's no marriage. They can call it a 'spiritual marriage' but without a 2nd marriage license, it's just two people living together and indulging in a sexual relationship.
Unless they have a 2nd marriage license applied for, It's just a man and a woman living together and there are any number of stranger arrangements in this country every day. When they apply for a 2nd marriage license THEN you ahve a case for polygamy.
What I believe about marriage is without relevance. What does the LAW say about marriage?? That's what's important.
This way of life is no more normal than bringing up a child in a homosexual “family”. This one is worse...they actaully involve the children in their “marriages” at 13 years of age!
You mean NAMGLA?
Fantasize about that stuff?
Read FLDS tracts?
This is the biggest problem with you pro-govt/anti-constitutionalists. You don't have an argument that will stand up in a court of LAW so you have to resort to name calling.
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