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To: muawiyah
There was NO MEXICO in 1703 either - just Spain, and NO TEXAS either.

Said that, didn't I?

Technically I suppose the location had other names and ways of referencing it, don't you!

Something like "mouth of the Rio Grande. There wasn't much there on either side of the river before what is now Matamoros was founded. Or many people, even Indians, to refer to it.

Original sentence fragment:

it's been in America since 1703 near Brownsville TX

I would gig you on 1703 and "America" but the two continents were called that in 1703, well before in fact. But there was no Texas, probably not even a Tejas, (the word comes from the Caddo Indian language, meaning Friends or Allies) Not much action that far north in New Spain in 1703 though. Too much nasty dry territory to cross to get there, from either direction. Even today there isn't much between the Corpus and Brownsville areas, and there's a whole county (Kendy), 50 miles, with no place to stop and buy gas or get water along US 77 between Sarita and Raymondville. Flat and very bleak, once known as the Wild Horse Desert. You might see a cow along that 50 miles, or you might not not, even the cows are pretty thin on the ground there, plus they tend to blend into the scrub.

173 posted on 06/01/2008 11:19:28 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
The organization in question makes the claim and competent area historians have authenticated the legitimacy of the claim.

There are other areas with similar "founding histories" - the US East Coast. By 1609 there'd already been 30 permanent European settlements made North of Carolanna (now the Carolinas). Jamestown wasn't the first - it was the 31st. However, it had good backing, some records were kept, and we know about it.

There was even a Portuguese colony established in what is now Labrador by 1530. The Spanish disbanded it in about 1538 (when they took over Portugual).

To a substantial degree most of these earlier settlements were simply year round fish drying stations, or places where whalers brought blubber to boil down to wax and oil.

Same with the COTFB in 1703 - there's not a lot of information on it, but the Spanish used candles and lamp oil. It's not surprising they might tolerate a permanent whaling camp. Might well be long overdue for someone to find the site of that settlement - just like the 30 earlier settlements on the East Coast that are not yet under study.

NOTE: Within the last year or so they discovered the actual site of the fort at Jamestown (lost since a flood in the early 1600s) and the location of the Spanish settlemment on a bend in the James River (above Jamestown) just about Hopewell. A Senior Cruz wrote in his diary about being invited to leave Hopewell as it was shut down by the Spanish to be relocated to Jamestown as it was opened up by the English. I believe he became Mr. Crews as well. An older Huguenot settlement in the area was eventually accreted to Carter's Grove Plantation - it was initially settled by a fellow with what appears to be the same surname as other Huguenots known to have lived in other early settlements on the East Coast. Not sure on what the Spanish called their "mission" at Hopewell, but it was located well above the tidewater and had year round fresh water, something not then available below the falls at what is now called Richmond.

174 posted on 06/01/2008 7:50:13 PM PDT by muawiyah
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