Say WA? Evergreen State ping
FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.
Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.
Don't forget all the oil that went into the production of that Ethanol!
Oregonians have an obligation to keep Iowa farmers wealthy.
“Besides, he said, his Buick has a computerized mileage read-out and “it doesn’t lie.””
I agree about ethanol, but he’s wrong there. Those readouts aren’t accurate enough to use to make his claim.
I’m waiting for prices to go down due to ethanol. But I’m not holding my breath.
Any chemist using 100 year old tables could tell you that a mixture of ethanol and gasoline has less energy than gasoline by volume.
“Lower Ethanol Mileage Means Biofuel Users Buy More Gas”
It also means that biofuel users pay more taxes, don’t you get it?
Study Finds Certain Ethanol Blends Can Provide Better Fuel Economy Than Gasoline
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2007/163_news071206_ethanol_fuel/index.html
Research findings released today show that mid-range ethanol blends—fuel mixtures with more ethanol than E10 but less than E85—can in some cases provide better fuel economy than regular unleaded gasoline, even in standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles.
Previous assumptions held that ethanol’s lower energy content directly correlates with lower fuel economy for drivers. Those assumptions were found to be incorrect. Instead, the new research strongly suggests that there is an “optimal blend level” of ethanol and gasoline—most likely E20 or E30—at which cars will get better mileage than predicted based strictly on the fuel’s per-gallon Btu content. The new study, cosponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy and the American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE), also found that mid-range ethanol blends reduce harmful tailpipe emissions.
“Initial findings indicate that we as a nation haven’t begun to recognize the value of ethanol,” said Brian Jennings, executive vice president of the American Coalition for Ethanol. “This is a compelling argument for more research on the promise of higher ethanol blends in gasoline. There is strong evidence that the optimal ethanol-gasoline blend for standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles is greater than E10 and instead may be E20 or E30. We encourage the federal government to move swiftly to research the use of higher ethanol blends and make necessary approvals so that American motorists can have the cost-effective ethanol choices they deserve at the pump.”
The University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental Research Center (EERC) and the Minnesota Center for Automotive Research (MnCAR) conducted the research using four 2007 model vehicles: a Toyota Camry, a Ford Fusion and two Chevrolet Impalas, one flex-fuel and one non-flex-fuel. Researchers used the EPA Highway Fuel Economy Test (HWFET) to examine a range of ethanol-gasoline blends from straight Tier 2 gasoline up to 85 percent ethanol. All of the vehicles got better mileage with ethanol blends than the ethanol’s energy content would predict, and three out of four actually traveled farther on a mid-level ethanol blend than on unleaded gasoline.
“I applaud the American Coalition for Ethanol for taking action and studying the impact of intermediate blends of ethanol. I am encouraged by the findings of this study, which should benefit the federal regulatory process for approving higher blends of ethanol,” said U.S. Senator John Thune (R-SD). “Intermediate blends of ethanol will offer consumers more choices at the pump, reduce dependence on foreign oil, and benefit our domestic ethanol industry for years to come.”
In addition to the favorable fuel economy findings, the research provides strong evidence that standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles can operate on ethanol blends beyond E10. The three non-flex-fuel vehicles tested operated on levels as high as E65 before any engine fault codes were displayed. Emissions results for the ethanol blends were favorable for nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and nonmethane organic gases, showing an especially significant reduction in CO2 emissions for each vehicle’s “optimal” ethanol blend (E20 for the flex-fuel Chevy, E30 for the Toyota and Ford, E40 for the non-flex Chevy).
“These studies show that moderate 20-30 percent ethanol blends can reduce air pollution, improve gas mileage, and save drivers money in the most popular cars on the road today,” said Brett Hulsey, president of Better Environmental Solutions, an environmental health consulting firm. “Moderate ethanol blends are homegrown in America, can be delivered with existing pumps to current vehicles, and cost less than gasoline. Ethanol lowers CO2 emissions 20 percent from gasoline, making it one of our most effective greenhouse gas reduction programs currently in place.”
KEY FINDINGS
Ethanol’s energy content was not found to be a direct predictor of fuel economy. A fuel’s energy content in British Thermal Units (Btu) is current standard practice for estimating fuel economy, a method that, because of ethanol’s lower Btu value, leads to estimates of decreased fuel economy in proportion to the percentage of ethanol in the fuel blend.
— This research, however, did not find ethanol’s Btu content to be a direct predictor of fuel economy. All four vehicles tested exhibited better fuel economy with the ethanol blends than the Btu-value estimates predicted.
E20 and E30 ethanol blends outperformed unleaded gasoline in fuel economy tests for certain autos. Contrary to Btu-based estimates of fuel economy for ethanol blends, three of the four vehicles tested achieved their highest fuel efficiency not on gasoline, but on an ethanol blend. Mid-level blends of ethanol E20 (20% ethanol, 80% gasoline) and E30 (30% ethanol, 70% gasoline) offered the best fuel economy in these tests.
— E30 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 1% increase) in both the Toyota and the Ford.
— E20 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 15% increase) in the flex-fuel Chevrolet.
— The non-flex-fuel Chevrolet more closely followed the Btu-calculated trend for fuel economy, but did experience a significant improvement over the trend line with E40 (40% ethanol, 60% gasoline), indicating that this may be the “optimal” ethanol blend level for this vehicle.
Standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles operated well on ethanol blends beyond 10 percent - All automakers currently cover the use of up to E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) by warranty for standard, non-flex-fuel vehicles. In this preliminary research, the three non-flex-fuel vehicles tested each operated successfully on ethanol blends significantly higher than this 10% ethanol level.
— The Ford Fusion operated on E45, the Toyota on E65, and the non-flex-fuel Chevy on E55. No engine fault codes were displayed until these levels were surpassed.
The American Coalition for Ethanol (ACE) is the grassroots voice of the U.S. ethanol industry, a national trade association for the ethanol industry with nearly 2,000 members nationwide, including farmers, ethanol producers, commodity organizations, businesses supplying goods and services to the ethanol industry, rural electric cooperatives, and individuals supportive of increased production and use of ethanol. For more information about ethanol or ACE, visit www.ethanol.org or call (605) 334-3381.
Source: American Coalition for Ethanol
Some aren’t even looking for the True Cause.
Another thing people don’t seem to get......if you double your MPG....say from 10mpg to 20mpg, you will use less gas. If everyone did this, the oil companies profits will be cut in half. Do people really think that they are going to let this happen? The less gas they sell, the higher they will raise the prices to keep the profit levels up.
The rising cost of food products and our tax dollars diverted to promote the production of ethanol must be factored into the net cost of the mandated fuel. It is very expensive.
What would be needed is to increase the compression ratio of the engines to take advantage of E85’s 105 octane rating or Ethanol’s 116 octane rating.
Cars with knock sensors may be taking advantage of the higher octane and advancing their timing to take advantage of it.
10 percent of gasoline is Ethanol.
Lower miles per gallon with Ethanol.
Government gets TAXES on the Ethanol, for every gallon of the mixture that is sold.
Good deal for the government.
Bad deal for the ordinary person.
Serves 'em right for buying into such a stupid energy "solution". It takes more energy to produce ethano than we get out of it. Kind of like making a dime that costs fifty cents to make...
Serves 'em right for buying into such a stupid energy "solution". It takes more energy to produce ethano than we get out of it. Kind of like making a dime that costs fifty cents to make...
I just called a customer to inform him that he needs a $150.00 carburetor ruined by setting for several months withwater and sour gasoline in the carburetor; since the main body of the carb is made of plastiv and is now all gummed up and corrosion has formed on the ramain white metal, a rebuild is out of the question.
Some of the water found in the bowl is due to phase separation, some to condensation and the remainder due to being abandoned outsida when it failed to run.
Alcohol is good to get drunk on and for specially built race car engines but damaging as auto fuel for the common car.
If we had to start buying fuel by the pound instead of the gallon we would better appreciate the difference.
We’ve had 10% ethanol in our gas for decades.
I still get 36 mpg in my Corolla.
It seems to work for me! YMMV.
“If ethanol isn’t to blame for the larger mileage gap, then, what is? Stop-and-go driving, speeds exceeding 60 miles per hour, underinflated tires, faulty oxygen sensors and clogged fuel filters can affect gas mileage, sometimes significantly, government energy analysts said.”
Sounds like obfuscation to me. This argument only makes sense if behavior has changed. If in the past, people used gasoline, avoided stop and go driving, drove below 60 mph, drove on fully inflated tires, had fully effective oxygen sensors, and uncloqqed fuel filters; but now people use an ethanol blend, practice stop-and-go driving, drive at speeds exceeding 60 miles per hour, have underinflated tires, faulty oxygen sensors and clogged fuel filters - then this argument holds. But there is no reason to think that people’s behavior has changed. Stop making excuses. It’s the ethanol.
I drive a Toyota Prius that constantly tells you how many miles per gallon you are getting. I can always tell when I get a ethanol blend in the tank because the mileage drops almost 10 mpg. It’s a nightmare.
“Spuhler said he has complained to state and federal officials but “it’s like talking to a brick wall.”
That’s socialism for you. I vote for individual freedom whenever I can. A lot of people in Portland OR vote for socialism (liberalsm). You asked for it, you got it. I hope you are happy now.