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To: zeestephen
the basic rationale for the Phoenix Mars probe is to see if ice exists just below the surface, and, once melted, if Martian water holds organic molecules - for some reason, Phoenix has no capability to actually test for life - seems crazy to me - it costs $400 million and took hundreds of people to get it to Mars - why they didn't add a few life detecting instruments is a complete mystery to me

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.
You state that Phoenix is testing for organic molecules then state it has no capability to test for life.
Seems to me that organic molecules are evidence of life. They are organic.

Here is Mission #1 as stated on the Phoenix site:
Goal 1: Determine whether life ever arose on Mars Continuing the Viking missions' quest, but in an environment known to be water-rich, Phoenix searches for signatures of life at the soil-ice interface just below the Martian surface. Phoenix will land in the artic plains, where its robotic arm will dig through the dry soil to reach the ice layer, bring the soil and ice samples to the lander platform, and analyze these samples using advanced scientific instruments. These samples may hold the key to understanding whether the Martian arctic is a habitable zone where microbes could grow and reproduce during moist conditions.
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science02.php

When one considers the amount of scientific instruments packed into a 5 ft. diameter, 700 lb. lander, your complaint sounds like someone receiving a 60 in. flat screen for his birthday and complaining that he didn't get a full entertainment center.

66 posted on 05/27/2008 1:48:53 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom - It's not just a job, It's an Adventure)
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To: Drammach
Drammach says: “I'm not sure I understand your logic here.
You state that Phoenix is testing for organic molecules then state it has no capability to test for life.
Seems to me that organic molecules are evidence of life. They are organic.”

Organic molecules, essentially carbon based precursors to life, are found throughout the universe. They are on comets, they are in the atmosphere of Venus, they are in the atmosphere of at least one gas giant planet that orbits a nearby star.

Yes, it will be interesting to learn if such molecules exist on Mars.

However, if you go to the enormous trouble and expense to send a spacecraft to Mars, why would you not equip it with the ability to detect cellular life, or the remains of cellular life?

Drammach says: “When one considers the amount of scientific instruments packed into a 5 ft. diameter, 700 lb. lander, your complaint sounds like someone receiving a 60 in. flat screen for his birthday and complaining that he didn't get a full entertainment center.”

If it took 10 years and $400 million to get the 60 inch flat screen, but 12 years and $450 million to get the full entertainment center, then, yes, I'm complaining.

To me this seems an obvious issue that is being deliberately ignored by the scientific press.

Why does Phoenix not have instruments that can specifically detect cellular life?

The neighborhood medical clinic across the street from me has those instruments.

If detecting cells on Mars would take 20 years and $1.5 billion, then that's a problem, but no one in the media is even asking the question.

69 posted on 05/27/2008 10:06:25 AM PDT by zeestephen
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