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To: OnRightOnLeftCoast

McCain/Clinton and if we refuse to support that, we will be attacked on this very forum by self professed “conservatives.”


4 posted on 05/25/2008 9:59:26 AM PDT by Grunthor (In 2006, McCain voted against defining marriage between one man and one woman)
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To: Grunthor

I wonder what Michael Medved would say since he argues there is a difference between rep and dems -


5 posted on 05/25/2008 10:00:48 AM PDT by edcoil
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To: Grunthor
McCain/Clinton and if we refuse to support that, we will be attacked on this very forum by self professed “conservatives.”

CINO's...

12 posted on 05/25/2008 10:40:53 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Grunthor
McCain/Clinton and if we refuse to support that, we will be attacked on this very forum by self professed “conservatives.”

Nope, you will be hailed for your good sense.

However, how about even 1 time you surprise us and actually attack the Democrats on ANYTHING? 100% of your posting on Free Republic consists of nothing but trash talking the Right and Freepers. If you are NOT a Democrat, why do you spend all you time acting as Democrat PR agent?

17 posted on 05/25/2008 11:12:45 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Grunthor
McCain/Clinton and if we refuse to support that, we will be attacked on this very forum by self professed “conservatives.”

Hey, you so-called "conservatives" can whine and stay home due to your "principles", but I'm a realist and am not about to waste my vote. Look, I supported Fred in the primaries, but it's time to rally around the Republican ticket. If that ticket is McCain/Clinton, then so be it. That is what primary voters decided upon, and now is too critical a time to be throwing temper tantrums and calling for so-called conservatives to stay home or throw their votes away on a third party.

You may say that you won't vote for the lesser of two evils, but you need to think hard before you make that choice. Sure, McCain is a backstabber who isn't conservative in the least, but we might have some influence over him after he gets elected. Hillary also may not be exactly the conservatives' first choice for VP, but she really isn't worse than Crist and we've already seen her at her worst. Better the "devil you know", I say.

Would you rather Obama win the election? Staying home or voting third party is a vote for Obama. ARE YOU AN OBAMA SUPPORTER?

< /mccainiac>

Grunthor, how did I do? I tried to include all of the normal McCainiac talking points, but I probably need to work on the personal insults to get it just right.

18 posted on 05/25/2008 11:13:11 AM PDT by SIDENET (Hubba Hubba...)
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To: Grunthor
If you have to lie like this about your real political allegiances, your side has all ready lost the debate. Not real sure who you Leftists feel you are fooling with this ignorant drivel.

Screaming louder just exposes you to more Freepers. You would not get so indignant if you were not so afraid of people knowing the truth about your real agenda.

34 posted on 05/25/2008 1:06:08 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Grunthor
Ok then if you are not a Leftist, you are the most supremely ignorant “Conservative” I have ever met. So are you just terribly ignorant of even the most basic political facts or are you a Leftist lying about your real political allegiances?

Cause you are either a total political fool or a total political fraud.

59 posted on 05/25/2008 3:09:54 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Grunthor
Instead of clinging with relentless fanaticism to your ignorance, try learning something.

Why Iraq

One of the really infuriating things in modern politics is the level of disinformation, misinformation, demagoguery and out right lying going on about the mission in Iraq. Democrats have spent the last 3+ years lying about Iraq out of a political calculation. The assumption is that the natural isolationist mindset of the average American voter, linked to the inherent Anti Americanism (what is misnamed the “Anti War movement”) of the more feverish Democrat activists (especially those running the US’s National “News” media) would restore them to national political dominance. The truth is the Democrat Party Leadership has simply lacked the courage to speak truth to whiners. The truth is that even if Al Gore won the 2000 election and 09-11 still happened we would be doing the EXACT same things in Iraq we are doing now.

Based on the political situation in the region left over from the 1991 Gulf War plus the domestic political consensus built up in BOTH parties since 1991 as well as fundamental military strategic laws, there was NO viable strategic choice for the US but to take out Iraq after finishing the initial operations in Afghanistan.

To start with Saddam's Iraq was our most immediate threat. We could NOT commit significant military forces to another battle with Saddam hovering undefeated on our flank nor could we leave significant forces watching Saddam. The political containment of Iraq was breaking down. That what Oil for Food was all about. Oil for Food was an attempt by Iraq to break out of it's diplomatic isolation and slip the shackles the UN Sanctions put on it's military. There there was the US Strategic position to consider.

The War on Islamic Fascism is different sort of war. in facing this Asymmetrical threat, we have a hidden foe, spread out across a geographically diverse area, with covert sources of supply. Since we cannot go everywhere they hide out, in fact often cannot even locate them until the engage us, we need to draw them out of hiding into a kill zone.

Iraq is that kill zone. That is the true brilliance of the Iraq strategy. We draw the terrorists out of their world wide hiding places onto a battlefield they have to fight on for political reasons (The “Holy” soil of the Arabian peninsula) where they have to pit their weakest ability (Conventional Military combat power) against our greatest strength (ability to call down unbelievable amounts of firepower) where they will primarily have to fight other forces (the Iraqi Security forces) in a battlefield that is mostly neutral in terms of guerrilla warfare. (Iraqi-mostly open terrain as opposed to guerrilla friendly areas like the mountains of Afghanistan or the jungles of SE Asia).

Did any of the critics of liberating Iraq ever look at a map? Iraq, for which we had the political, legal and moral justifications to attack, is the strategic high ground of the Middle East. A Geographic barrier that severs ground communication between Iran and Syria apart as well as providing another front of attack in either state or into Saudi Arabia if needed.

There were other reasons to do Iraq but here is the strategic military reason we are in Iraq. We have taken, an maintain the initiative from the Terrorists. They are playing OUR game on ground of OUR choosing.

Problem is Counter Insurgency is SLOW and painful. Often a case of 3 steps forward, two steps back. One has to wonder if the American people have either the emotional maturity, nor the intellect” to understand. It's so much easier to spew made for TV slogans like “No Blood for Oil” or “We support the Troops, bring them home” or dumbest of all “We are creating terrorists” then to actually THINK.

Westerners in general, and the US citizens in particular seem to have trouble grasping the fundamental fact of this foe. These Islamic Fascists have NO desire to co-exist with them. The extremists see all this PC posturing by the Hysteric Left as a sign that we are weak. Since they want us dead, weakness encourages them. There is simply no way to coexist with people who completely believe their “god” will reward them for killing us.

So we can covert to Islam, die or kill them. Iraq is about killing enough of them to make the rest of the Jihadists realize we are serious. They same way killing enough Germans, Italians and Japanese eliminated the ideologies of Nazism, Fascism and Bushido.

Americans need to understand how Bin Laden and his ilk view us. In the Arab world the USA is considered a big wimp. We have run away so many times. Lebanon, the Kurds, the Iraqis in 1991, the Iranians, Somalia, Clinton all thru the 1990s etc etc etc. The Jihadists think we will run again. In fact they are counting on it. That way they can run around screaming “We beat the American just like the Russians, come join us in Jihad” and recruit the next round of “holy warriors”. Iraq is also a show place where we show the Muslim world that there are a lines they cannot cross. On 9-11-01 they crossed that line and we can, and will, destroy them for it -

If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

Winston Churchill

60 posted on 05/25/2008 3:12:28 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Grunthor; calcowgirl
No matter what the GOP does, a section of the Conservative media and public do nothing but bitch about it. 100% of the time. Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.

They have gotten in such a habit of bitching they never fight the Left on anything anymore. In fact, they ignore the Left to find new excuses to whine about the GOP. They are not going to be happy until they bitch their way to a 60+ seat Democrat Senate, 300+ seat Democrat House and a Democrat President. THEN they will mindlessly bitch at everyone else for what THEY helped created with their ignorant whining.

Pretty tough to win a battle when 30% of your team NEVER does anything but snipe it's own side in the back.

105 posted on 05/25/2008 4:48:05 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Grunthor

Great paper dragon.


110 posted on 05/26/2008 12:04:36 AM PDT by SolidWood (Refusal to vote for McCain is active support of Obama. Period.)
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