Posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:33 AM PDT by LeGrande
"The raid - resulting in the largest child custody case in American history - was based on a lie."
"Police traced the calls to 33-year-old Colorado Springs woman named Rozita Swinton. Swinton had earlier been arrested for making a false report, and accused of posing as "Jennifer," 16, who called 911 to report that her father had locked her in a basement for days. Swinton may also have posed as thirteen-year-old Dana Anderson, who was being sexually abused by her pastor and raped by her father. There is no evidence that Sarah, Jennifer, or Dana exist. Swinton remains a "person of interest" in the case, but has not been charged in connection to the raid. "
I notice you aren’t arguing that the flds was anything but abusive, only that CPS bungled the entry. That leaves hope that you may have left a sliver of sanity.
But I will be surprised if the DNA tests don’t show marked signs of inbreeding, hardly something to be proud of.
“I think it is very unlikely that a higher court will overturn this ruling because CPS blew it by raiding the ranch in the first place on a false report and by holding adult women captive, being falsely accused of being minor children - not to mention treating the entire community as one family instead of individual families and individuals.”
So what you are saying Saundra is that the FLDS are saints without blemish. Way to prove our point that you are an apologist for polygamy and the patriarchal nightmare of Warren Jeffs.
I have no doubt the FLDS can escape on legalisms. Now which of you brave folks will defend patriarchal polygamy that REQUIRES the ejection of lost boys and the impregnation of young girls by older men as a core doctrine?
If there are several little girls walking around pregnant, not going to high school, in a gated commune, it's suspicious enough to investigate. If you have an open container in a car, they can investigate.
This is a farm for sex slaves, not the Shakers.
I have never defended the FLDS nor will I. Attacking the CPS for behaving improperly is not defending the FLDS. The situation is exactly synonymous with Waco and the Duke Lacrosse team. I wouldn't dream of defending David Koresh (a Christian) or a bunch of drunken partyers. I hate Duke especially their Basketball team when the NCAA tournament starts : )
But I will be surprised if the DNA tests don’t show marked signs of inbreeding, hardly something to be proud of.
Probably, but absent DNA from the fathers it will probably show little that the CPS can use. What I think the CPS is hoping for is that a parent of a young girl has claimed that young girls child as her own, to avoid the underage charges. I think that is the best that the CPS can hope for. DNA doesn't have age markers, not that we can currently read anyway.
In the end it always comes down to follow the money. Money never lies.
We aren’t interested in the bait. The fisher can look elsewhere for suckers.
We aren’t interested in the bait. The fisher can look elsewhere for suckers.
"Fake but accurate" "Ends justify the means" "Comrade Napoleon is always right" "kill them all, let God sort them out"
I think the case fell apart when the women didn't agree to testify against their husbands, even at the prospect of losing their children. All it will take is a single women who agrees to testify that she was abused and the FLDS are toast.
The CPS officials have to be in shock that they don't have a single witness yet. I am amazed too, that they haven't managed to coerce anyone either. The longer this goes on the more I tend to think that this is a well prepared group of FLDS'ers.
Polygamy is different since it has to do with the very structure of the family.
However, I have come to the conclusion I was wrong about my earlier view of things.
I agree, polygamy and bigamy are illegal. So why didn’t they arrest the men? The children aren’t polygamists, the state of Texas deemed all the children were in imminent danger of child and sexual abuse, when...most of them were not. In America, we don’t arrest people for something that might happen 10 years down the road.
Get back to us and let us know how that works out when the state decides that they don't quite like your attitude or beliefs. Get all of your 'papers' in order so that you will be ready when they knock -- if they bother. Don't bother trying not to answer the door when they come because they will burn your house down and your neighbors will cheer because they always suspected you were a little odd.
Not that we didn't try to preserve your rights even though its obvious that you don't appreciate them ...
Well, I've had my doubts ... but if you're convinced it must be true! Quick -- you should contact the prosecutors in San Angelo because, at this moment, they are having a wee bit of trouble holding their case together. I'm convinced you'll save the day!
Oh dear me ... did you know that orange kool-aid burns very badly when it comes shooting out of one's nose? LOL!!!!!
Nope, I'm living in the United States of America, a Constitutional Republic governed by our Constitution and laws. What color is the sky on the world that you live on? And your comments on libertarians and "legal dope" again illustrate just how encyclopedic your ignorance is. (Try learning the first rule of holes, at least.)
If there are several little girls walking around pregnant, not going to high school, in a gated commune, it's suspicious enough to investigate.
No it's not. There are thousands of pregnant underage girls walking around in the US. It's not exclusive to FLDS, Texas or even the U.S.
Ever heard of "homeschooling"? It isn't a crime not to be going to "high school".
I live within a few minutes drive of thousands of houses in a gated "community". They like it for for their security. It's not illegal. Nor is being in a "commune". Again, I'd admonish you to read the US Constitution. Nothing you have described, based solely upon fantasies put out by the news media and believed hook line and sinker by mental midgets like you, is "suspicious enough to investigate". However, if some legal authority wants to investigate, they must do so by following the laws and the Constitution without abridging the rights of those that are being "investigated".
If you have an open container in a car, they can investigate.
While they may be able to investigate, they have to do it according to all laws and rules, just the same as everyone else. If they don't follow the laws, then their "investigation" will be thrown out of court, just as this illegal "investigation" has. A bank of judges reviewed the facts and information in the case and UNANIMOUSLY ruled that it was illegal. Not one dissent. And I'm sure that the Texas Supreme Court will rule the same way. No evidence, don't follow the rules, out goes your "investigation" and all the results of it. That's how "innocent until proven guilty" works in this country. How do they do it in yours?
This is a farm for sex slaves, not the Shakers.
And you have exactly what facts to back this little piece of slander up? Oh, that's right, you have the news media's fantasies to prove it all to you. No need for due process, innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt for you. Again, what color is the sky on your world?
I'm really torn between wondering whether you are using projection, denial or reaction formation to so distort your reality. But, I suppose it is actually a combination of all three.
You see, Projection is a defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are unconscious psychological mechanisms that protect us from feelings that we cannot consciously accept- unconsciously projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people, so that one doesn't have to own them. You project the feelings you have onto someone or some other group, and then can villify those others for those things which you actually want or subconsiously desire.
For example, if you had uncomfortable feelings of wanting to be a little girl and have sex with older men- that is socially unacceptable, but projecting it onto others gives you the vicarious enjoyment that you couldn't get in a socially acceptable way. One would see this in someone who desperately wanted to have to have sex with older men or who felt they weren't loved by the older men in their life. So projection will defend against these "unacceptable" feelings. Have you been so unloved by the men in your life that you are so obsessed with vilifying so badly the FLDS women and men? Your, and others, vehemence in name calling and unfounded accusations is frightening.
We see projection very often in the liberal anti-gunners who see everyone else in the world as uncontrolled fiends who would kill everyone if they got their hands on a gun, projecting their own fear of their lack of control on everyone else. You know, the "blood running in the streets if everyone had guns" type of statements.
Denial is another defense mechanism that is simply refusing to accept the reality of a given situation. Couldn't these people actually be God-fearing, moral persons who don't like the way society has descended, and wish to live unpolluted lives away from what they see as immoral? You can't accept that anyone would want to do this, so you will deny that they are such and label them as "a farm for sex slaves", again projecting your unacceptable desires on an external group.
Reaction formation occurs when a person's mind turns an unacceptable feeling or desire into its complete opposite. Often such people who have guilty or socially unacceptable desires will "project" those desires onto others (projection above), and then assume such an all consuming hatred of the others, even cloaking themselves in other "higher", more spiritual disciplines and believe that they are "superior" to "less civilized" folks who engage in the "guilty" behavior. This not only allows the person to avoid dealing with his/her rage or guilt, it allows him/her actually to vilify the people s/he hates without having to know s/he hates them, and to force his/her beliefs on those others by force or societal pressure. We see this in strident, angry vegetarian who wants to ban meat and force all others by way of passing laws and societal conventions to conform to the way they think is "right".
Your strident use of terms such as "a farm for sex slaves" or "nasty old men" and "horny old goats" for vilification of the FLDS says a lot more about YOUR deep seated psychological processes to me than it does about them. At least to anyone trained in psychology it would.
The more strong the language, the nastier the terms used, the more guilt and more deep seated rage or desires are indicated. Based on the language you use and the unfounded comments that you spout as facts, you should really get some professional help - soon.
Ad hominem attacks, name calling and associating others with societally unapproved drugs just show your lack of mature, rational thought processes and inability to handle your own deep-seated feelings and rage when someone points out errors in your thought processes. Good luck with therapy.
“Way to prove our point that you are an apologist for polygamy and the patriarchal nightmare of Warren Jeffs.”
Hello, Warren Jeffs is in prison. He was not there.
“So why didn’t they arrest the men?”
Because that would have been illegal and hard. Easier to round up a bunch of innocent children to punish the men.
I agree with some of your comments..some others..not so much.
The Texas CPS has had to deal with some very high level cases. A child locked in a closet for years, five children drowned in a bathtub, a mother bashing her children's head in with a rock and a mother cutting her baby's arms off..just too mention a few. And every time, the media screams..where was CPS??? So, I guess in the arm chair quarterbacking world they may or not be wrong. I don't believe these folks that work at thankless, low paying jobs have rushed in to insure their “job security”. The system, sadly is overloaded as it is.
I certainly agree that FLDS played them like a fiddle.
The analogy that comes to mind is that people think that terrorists are sitting in caves eating beetles. They are not smart. That because these folks dress and act like they are living in the 1800’s they think in that manner. Not too smart. But they know the ropes. This group has eluded prosecution for a long time. (With the exception of Warren Jeffs.)
I feel like the DNA will be muddled do to intermarriage, the “old guys” have already split, the remaining people will be uncooperative and the media will do the rest. I guess there is no way there could be false I.D.s or birth certificates?? That doesn't happen. /s
The references to Waco are getting old...that was federal..and there was pr oven evidence of child abuse. I don't think you have said that...but those that need to review the case.
I don't let my emotions rule. In a normal case of child abuse, an anonymous phone call is the trigger. The investigation follows.All the children in a potentially dangerous situation are removed. The investigation follows. This was very out of the ordinary. How did they know who to remove?
Bah--a hundred years of inbreeding and mistreatment. Scarred and ruined human DNA. Porn for horndogs.
Everything I have read leads me to believe that these WOMEN (married as girls) are controlled and dominated by foul, goatish old men.
check out my taqline.
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